Death Panels Are Back!

by Noam N. Levey | The Los Angeles Times  |  published on July 9, 2015

Death-PanelSix years after end-of-life planning nearly derailed development of the Affordable Care Act amid charges of “death panels,” the Obama administration has revived a proposal to reimburse physicians for talking with their Medicare patients about how patients want to be cared for as they near death.

The proposal, contained in a large set of Medicare regulations unveiled Wednesday, comes amid growing public discussion about the need for medical care that better reflects patients’ wishes as they get older.

Two months ago, former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, one of the front-runners for the Republican presidential nomination in 2016, suggested that Medicare patients should sign so-called advance directives that spell out the care they want if they become incapacitated.

  • joe

    Death panels, no. BUT — my VA doc is under orders to question me, on every visit, about any guns that I might have, my “mood”, and to inform me that it is “time to begin counseling” (after I pressed him on the issue, he told me that said counseling was “end of life” counseling).
    My wife (not under VA health care) is being harassed by several hospice “nurses” and her doc is also pushing for counseling in the area.

    Her medication is also being curtailed both by availability and by astronomical price increases. For example, a med that she has had since 1998 we paid $50/month copay in ’98. Our copay for that particular med yesterday (7/18/’15) was $215.00. Another of her meds has been changed from one manufacturer to a Chinese supplier, on orders from the insurance company bean counters. I’m certain that accountants know more about the effects of medications than the doctors do. After all, accountants have gone to _college_ for that!
    Our nation is doomed if we do not allow God to return and we get our government under control of the citizens once again.

  • Bonnie68

    Excuse me, you people need to speak the truth and stop the lying to produce FEAR in people.

    There are no death panels. There never was. The Advance Directives are an individuals choices. DID YOU HEAR that. You make the choices of what to do when you are near the end of your life. You fill out the form.

    You choose if you want to be keep alive if you can not speak for yourself.
    You choose is you want any “extraordinary medical procedures” to keep you alive. You decide if you want to appoint someone else to make the decisions for you. Everything is what you want.

    Stop allowing these people to scare you. You have access to the internet do a search on the things they talk about and you will find out that they are the FOX channel of the internet. Keep them upset, and we will get their votes.

    You are not stupid sheep. They know you are, because they keep feeding you this stuff and you all keep repeating it.

    Just like a post I just read – “It’s time to take decisive action. Join Oathkeepers” Yeah right. Be lied to some more.

    WAKE UP don’t listen to these people until you look up what they are talking about.

  • KLH6

    I have to admit, this one puzzles me. I filled out advance directives 11 years ago when I was 52. At that point I had been an RN for 29 years & they thought I might have hsd colon cancrr. It turned out to be a cystadenoma on my appendix. When I went into surgery I didn’t know if I would have half my colon removed or just my appendix. It turned out not to be colon cancer. But I had filled out my DNR papers, advance directives & durable power of attorney. Everyone should have them filled out & keep them with them. We had a situation
    long ago. An elderly gentlemen looked like he was going to die. He wasn’t coherent to talk to us. I asked MD to give us guidlines as far as resuscitation. A brother that he had been close to told us over the phone not to revive him should he pass. So we made him a DNR. Meanwhile a grandson who hadn’t seen him in years, said he wanted everything done. The Doc said since a grandson was technically a closer relative to resuscitate him if he expired. Of course, he “coded”about an hour later. We worked on him for over an hour. Naturally he didn’t survive. It was a mess. No family was around so we sent him to the morgue. I’m sorry this is long. My point is this:if you don’t put in writing & remind your care provider every time you see them what your wishes are, you will have many things done to you that perhaps you don’t want done. It’s not a “death panel”. It’s instructions in case you are incapacitated & can’t speak for yourself. Patients used to tell me they wanted everything done but didn’t want to be a “vegetable” on life support. I’d explain that once we crack the code cart open, we can’t predict the final outcome. In this country people have a hard time talking about death. We are all going to die.
    Leave written instructions on how you’d like to be cared for in your last dsys. Some people think that if someone is a DNR, that the nurses will not care for them anymore. That’s not true. Nurses will still bathe them, change their linen, brudh their teeth, etc. In other words we will try to keep them comfortable. Many times one family member wants everything done, usually the one who has not seen them inages. The one that takes care of them daily & has seen them suffer, don’t want them put through more pain.

  • Death Panels are present in all countries that force Socialized Medicine on their citizens. I am an expatriate, living overseas, in a country that has socialized medicine and yes, they have Death Panels. My brother in law was a victim of a Death Panel. He was a big strong wine farmer, here in Europe, never been sick a day in his life. He retired at 65, a month later, had a checkup and found out he had Liver Cancer but the doctors said that a transplant would save him because it had not spread, and that he could live another twenty years or so. But the Death Panels decided he was too old to waste the money on and refused to allow it. My favorite brother in law and good friend and brother died at home, all because of Death Panels! I also required a liver transplant and was given one in 2005, after five years of horrible sickness, and my care and after care was good, no complaints really. I am now 63, and if I do need another one, I will also be turned down because of my age, and will have to die. Obama saying there are no Death Panels in his ObamaCare is nothing more than a LIE, as usual, with this 3rd World Kenyan Tyrant!

  • used_to_be_a_liberal

    “Death Panels are Back” Hell, they never left. Remember Obama’s speech, “just give them a pill” that was said when he was talking about medical care for older people, the idea is to save money rather then providing a hip replacement, knee surgery, hart or other organ transplants, “just give them a pill”
    For any so-called “progressive” who maybe reading this, go and research Hitler’s health care plan, then you might just see, how “progressive” you are not.

  • Seedman

    Let’s be honest. The reimbursement would be for physicians to pressure the elderly and ill to prematurely end their lives. Typical skunk Obama and Jonathan Gruber double talk. May God have mercy upon their wicked souls. It is not survival of the fittest; rather it should be compassion and seeking God’s will to be done.

  • Bonnie Warner

    1776 Coalition – Why are spreading FEAR through your lies?

  • Bonnie Warner

    People lets get real! The article about Death Panels is absolutely ancient history – before Obama and almost before Bush. When any patient enters a hospital or nursing home situation they are asked if they have “Advance Directives.” This is not for their benefit. It is for your benefit. Every adult should have Advance Directives no matter how old you are. These papers tells everyone “what you want.” If you are in a car accident and have to live on machines the rest of your life, your loved one can’t bare making the decision to end your life, so linger for 20-30 years, because they keep feeding you with tubes. You have the choice to tell everyone that you don’t want to be kept alive for longer than X number of days. Or this or that! Whatever you want! That is the only point of an Advance Directive. Every patient that enters a nursing home has to have a directive so that the nursing home knows what you want done, if anything happens. You should give copies of your directives to the hospital that you go to, your primary care physician, or any other physician you go to, and your spouse or BFF.

    Remember all through this article I mentioned “Whatever You Want Done” that is the purpose and the only purpose of the directives. If someone is telling you something else, like this article is implying, they are spreading FEAR, to give you another reason to hate. Be informed and research the directive and see for yourself what they are for. Don’t follow the sheep into the pit of H@ll, without getting the information for yourself.

  • mjmaf

    For Death Panels we can start by taking a close look at all the politicians who have spent their entire “working” lives in office and perhaps they have outlived their un-usefulness to us on this earth and maybe it is time for them to be helped in transitioning to another dimension as the 1st participating test patients to Death Panels. After all as older “patients” they are using up a lot of OUR Tax- Paid-For health care for all their limitless maladies. When Congress and all levels of our corrupt government have been purged of these useless idiots, then we can re-evaluate these “Panels”. And why not? They get first choice on everything else – before us. Sound good? After all, in Britain, where this stellar socialist form of “medicine” is touted as a shining example, they euthanize about 387,000 people per year because they are “too expensive” and a burden on the health care budget after the government has taken a very huge chunk of their pay for health care. Remember the man who died of thirst in a “Hospital”? Withholding any type of care, even a glass of water is a Death Panel. Obviously our politicians will get to decide who is more equal than others in determining who gets and who does not. Did YOU vote for them? No? Oops – Death Panel for you!

  • DaveM

    Another way to guarantee death for Americans and government interaction with those who do not need it!~

    How in the world did the people before our time survive and die with honor?

  • Nancy

    Every time I see that bastard, Obama’s name I know it will be something crooked that he has planned., I still hold the death wish on him. How dare he be so ignorant and still be in the White House!!!

  • edorr1atcoxdotnet

    I am 73, have had two heart attacks and an AFIB incident, never once have I been approached about just accepting things and being willing to die. We just had a 95 (nearly 96) year old man at church I attend pass away but it was under his terms not some doctor or death panel. I have yet to see anyone tell the truth it is just propaganda from the right wingers who dislike having an African American as President. Oh yeah, Jeb Bush also suggested the same as you all talk about and he is a Republican.

    • Detriotcity

      edorr1atcoxdonet – It is not the color of the man’s skin. The liberal community want you to believe that is the case. It is not. It is what this jerk is doing to our country that people want him gone. Most of all the moderate democrats want him gone. What in the world have you been doing for the past 6 years that would make you believe otherwise?

    • Nina Capps

      Nobody cares that the man is black, its his policies that we don’t like not him.

  • Fedup

    First they denied “death panels”. Now they are admitting there are panels. When will it be mandatory to sign up for a panel at a certain age?

  • I want to spend my last days at Hooters.

  • jerry young

    this all sounds so innocent talking to your doctor about when you die, but be careful what you allow obama to slip by, we all know that after he gets something passed he rewrites it many times until the innocent sounding is pure evil! take a look at obamacare or obamatrade, full of deception and lies, obamacare has been rewritten to the point where the only part that is the same is the name, in any case nothing good comes from it

  • bambi69

    Since when are discussions between patient (1) and doctor (1) a panel — and Health Care Directives have been around for much much longer than the Affordable Care Act. The idiocy of these contentions discussion between patient and physician constitutes “death panel” is so utterly ridiculous that it is hard to believe that ANYONE, even Sara Palin, could make a statement such as this. And Jeb Bush suggesting “that Medicare patients should sign ….. advance directives…….” is an idea ridiculous for one very good reason — NOT ONLY MEDICARE PATIENTS BUT ALL ELDERLY ALREADY HAVE THIS DISCUSSION WITH THEIR PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIANS AND/OR ANY SPECIALISTS THEY HAVE. This is nothing new and in no way constitutes a “death panel” — this is strictly idiocy.

    • kathleen_smith121

      As an RN who has witnessed, not as employee, as I would never participate in what is going on in Hospice, YOU need to open your eyes and wake up.
      Hospitals and some families and others are very anxious to ship you off to Hospice for the morphine drip (or oral if you are able), referred to ” making you comfortable” until the morphine does what it was intended to do , that is, stop your breathing. The morphine and Ativan drip begins before people are taken off of ventilators to make SURE they never take a breath once the assistive device is removed. Witnessed this performed on a friend in February.
      The government, through your Medicare insurance, is HAPPY to pay for this service and get you off the Medicare and Social Security roster. Saves them LOTS of MONEY. MONEY is what it is about!! the sooner you stop breathing the more they make.

      • Margorie

        Well said Kathleen. I witnessed Hospice at work and children of the patient going along with the morphine in a small syringe, lovingly saying to their trusting mother, “time for your medicine Mom.” One of my nephews was slowly dying at the hands of hospice when his son sent them packing. My nephew recuperated to the point that he was able to attend Church and even go to his mother’s house for Sunday dinner. Say “NO” to Hospice! it’s legal MURDER!

    • ravenwings


    • festmatt5440

      ‘ Speaking of ‘ idiocy ‘ .

    • Margorie

      Back down Bambi. You speak of that which you know not of!

  • 4lifeandfreedom

    Be careful what you sign for “end-of-life” issues–the “Will to Live” is worth reading at the National Right to Life’s site. A living will presents many questionable issues……

    • Bob Stewart

      I, not the state or anyone else, have the right to determine how my life ends. It will be on my terms unless death comes unexpectedly. I appreciate everyone’s religious beliefs and I respect them for them but, I will determine how I die and I will face my maker and accept my judgment. I wonder what judgment will be meted out for people who try to determine how others live or die? I have a living will that also authorizes euthanasia under certain conditions. I also have a joint medical power of attorney. I just don’t buy into the thinking that somehow you get points for how much you suffer. You may believe whatever you like.

      • 4lifeandfreedom

        Doctors and other caregivers could be determining for you, despite your own determinations ahead of time. Obamacare has called for death panels(in an article today) that will determine one’s right to care, if one is considered not worthy based on even a disability–research carefully. Perhaps you did not read the National Right to Life’s article concerning the “Will to Live” as opposed to the “Living Will?”

        • kathleen_smith121

          Yes, one of the shapers of the ACA is Ezekiel Immanuel, Rhom’s brother (Chicago mayor at this time) Author of the “complete lives effect”
          By Cassandra Effect, July 31, 2009 6:21 pm

          Ezekiel developed a life continuum. It outlines who is worth of receiving care and using resources. (Google the Cassandra effect to see the chart as it would not copy here) After age 3 and up to age 50 are the people he believes are “worthy” of reciving the care and resources. Before three means born with a disability, very premmie , severe trauma, costs too much to keep alive andif they can never ba worker bee, considers lack of return on investment. Likewise those over 50 who have trauma from car crashes, stokes, heart bypass or transplant needs, MS and on and on, really have use up their “worthiness” to receive care and resources seen as a shorter time to live after treatment diminished “return o investment”.

          Recently Ezekiel has on MSNBC where is said that 75 is the IDEAL time to be dead, and as the ACA dictates, those over 75 will not be treated for diseases i.e cancer and also not received screening i.e mammigrams, PSA .

          ” You have to pass the bill to see what is in it”-Nancy Pelosi

          Some of you spouting off here are ignorant as to what is in that bill. But don’t try to find out, just live in your little bubbles until the government say you can’t live there any more and pops your bubble. Off to Hospice with you!!

          The Health Care Chart that Will Scare YOU to DEATH

          By Cassandra Effect, July 31, 2009 6:21 pm

          This chart reflects President Obama’s health policy adviser’s argument that health care resources should be allocated to the young adult population, and limited in the older and youngest populations. In other words – if your too young or too old you are NOT GOING TO RECEIVE all the care you may NEED!

          Who wrote this? Why Obama’s special advisor to the Office of Management and Budget for health policy, Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel. If the name sounds familiar, that is because he is the brother of White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. Dr. Emanuel is the chair of Bio-Ethics at the NIH as well as an Oncologist. He co-authored a paper earlier this year titled, Principles for Allocation of Scarce Medical Interventions. (free registration may be required to view) .

          The paper examines a number of methods of allocating scarce resources, and the authors introduce their own hybrid model called the “COMPLETE LIVES SYSTEM.”

          When implemented, the complete lives system produces a priority curve on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most substantial chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated.

          While the authors recognize that their system has flaws:

          The complete lives system discriminates against older people

          but….and there’s always a but….

          Accepting the complete lives system for health care as a whole would be premature. We must first reduce waste and increase spending.

          And they even bring up on, their own, the NAZI like nature of this notion!

          Ultimately, the complete lives system does not create “classes of Untermenschen whose lives and well being are deemed not worth spending money on”, but rather empowers us to decide fairly whom to save when genuine scarcity makes saving everyone impossible. [emphasis mine]

          In other words – once we’ve squeezed out waste, fraud, abuse and eliminated the profit from the system – we’ll still have more demand for services than we can afford. And WHEN THAT HAPPENS – we need a SYSTEM to allocate the resources.

          While this is an interesting intellectual exercise at best, it should SCARE THE LIVING HELL out of anyone who plans on living past 60 years of age. In essence, only “productive workers” would be eligible to receive the maximum amount of care. Once your use to society is limited, or, in the case of children, a significant investment has not yet been made in you,YOU WILL BE ON YOUR OWN.

          Dr. Emanuel has also has published a book – “Guaranteed Access Health Care” (at least the title makes it clear where he stand on this issue!)

          In a nutshell, his health care system would be universal mandatory care, funded by a Value Added Tax (VAT). Its not clear how Dr. Emanuel reconciles the conflicting notions of selling the population on ”Guaranteed Access Health Care” and his recommendation for allocating scarce medical resources. The American people are being sold down the river by the shiny object of “FREE” Health Care. Don’t listen America – NOTHING IS FREE – and Universal Government Funded Care is a placing your health care treatment in the hands of faceless, nameless, and more importantly, unaccountable bureaucrats.

          A complete review of his book can be found at the New York Review of Books (and no do not expect it to be too balanced!)

          Share this chart with EVERYONE you know – we MUST NOT allow our country to become an amoral nation without mercy for the young and the old.

          Hat Tip to for their an excellent article Rahm’s Brother Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel: The Death Czar


          • ravenwings

            And he said it on film! And if I remember right he said those that have reached 75 should just die.

          • Margorie

            In that case I should be allowed to live two years and 10 months more since I will turn 73 in September. My children had better start looking around for someone to mow the lawn! Which reminds me, due to lightning yesterday, I had to put he lawnmower up. Need to finish up this afternoon!

          • reggie

            You go girl. Many more lawn mowings to you, and a happy 90th if you choose.

      • kathleen_smith121

        Not to worry! Hospice will be MORE than willing to HELP you!!

        • ravenwings

          Not if the law takes complete effect. They will not get paid!!

      • Margorie

        To each his own beliefs! I myself prefer to put these matters into the hands of the ONE WHO created me. I think His will and judgement supersedes us mortals opinions.

  • Sevenmag

    Anyone of us who are convinced that this corruption can be repaired at the ballot box, is delusional. The whole of the federal government is indescribably corrupt. From the perpetual boot lickers, all the way to the Supreme Court we are held captive by criminals. It’s time to take decisive action.
    Join Oathkeepers.

    • dcfla


      • bambi69

        Your comment makes ABSOLUTELY no sense at all. You need to read before you post to avoid looking like an idiot.

        AND this also applies to you “Sevenmag”

        • omega2


          • Margorie

            There are too many people in this country with her ignorant mindset. And the problem is they are allowed to vote even with half a brain! They have no knowledge of our history and yet they want to take down all elements that symbolize our great history to the point of unburying our heroes! Incredible!

            Time to take our country back from those who would utterly destroy it! Leaders ! Come forward!

          • reggie

            10th Amendment center, nullification. How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. Start by getting rid of local traitors, then country traitors, then state traitors including congress.

        • The Hawk

          Wow! What happened? You fall out of bed this morning on your little liberal head?

        • festmatt5440

          How did you get so stuuuu ‘ – pid ” , in only one ‘ lifetime ?

          • DaveM

            Shame when one looks in a mirror and states a fact that is directly upon his own image!

            (This is for Bambi and my support for you!)

        • Margorie

          Sweetheart, take your foolish little head out of the sand and brush off your pea-sized brain and go out in society (civilized ,I mean) and take a look around. YOU, my dear are the idiot!

        • DaveM

          Go play with thumper Bambi!

        • DaveM

          ATTENTION READERS! Double click on Bambi’s name and you will see many of her responses! Bambi continues to insult and lesson many! By some of her responses one wonders if the early stages of Alzheimer has taken hold.

      • don

        all that needs saying about obama is he is a muslim leaning marixist—

        • festmatt5440

          ‘ Commie ‘

      • Sevenmag

        You’re absolutely correct. Anyone who thinks that things are not deteriorating, rapidly, in this once great country, are a huge part of the problem.
        Thanks for your response.

        • I Seigel

          There’s only ONE thing that is causing this country to deteriorate right now, and that’s CITIZENS UNITED.

          (Oh, and the other thing that is contributing to the destruction of our country was the inability of your mother and other mothers of Tea Partiers to have an abortion, courtesy of the Christian Coalition and the Moral Majority and Ralph Reed. Now we’re stuck with jerks like you.)

      • Detriotcity

        The folks that are now in government are the people committing treason. Shall we continue to let it happen?

        • DaveM

          We need to remove them! Revolution is near!

    • don

      you must stand—each an everone of us an take back what has been took from us an once more see that this nation is free from the likes of obama an his think alikes

      • kathleen_smith121

        How do you purpose we go about this “take back?”
        We need community organizations to do this as the left has in place. Get it started! Blogging accomplishes NOTHING!!

        • Grady Mullins

          So true. Talking to each other does nothing. We have no plan, no organization, and no leader. It remains to be seen if any of the so-called conservative candidates will emerge as a leader that has a vision of restoring the patriotism we knew back in the 40’s and 50’s.

        • DaveM

          The only thing that I can personally see happening is a revolution to destroy the evil monster Obama and his cronies have created! Action committees have been slammed by this administration and so have petitions which have been avoided! Revolution is near people!

          • reggie

            Then comes martial law and the king for life.

          • Rx7pj


          • DaveM

            Yes you are….say something constructive without vulgarity if you can you micro cephalic troglodyte

          • DaveM


          • reggie

            Hope it never comes to martial law, his new airplane being built, that we paid for, can stay aloft indefinitely. The garbage in DC have bunkers that they can live in almost forever. We’re the dirt. Too many braindead entitled people, illegals, and UN troops will fight to destroy us. I don’t know how to get the majority of people to listen. They’ll get it when it’s too late.

          • Rx7pj

            What the hell is wrong with you??? Are you really that ignorant???

          • DaveM

            Then oh great smart one….what do you recommend! Benjamin Franklin stated, “A little revolution is good now an then.” The constitution was written for the very problems set forth by the liberals which control today and a civilian militia is the answer! Put your head in the sand but tell me you do not like guns and you are a great peanut!

            Go ahead! Let everyone hear your answer!

            Rx7pj is a very disrespectful and arrogant stupid one. His comments always contain curse words and lessonings! DOUBLE CLICK ON HIS NAME ABOVE AND SEE FOR YOURSELF! a REAL SOUTH BOUND END OF A NORTH BOUND HORSE!

          • Rx7pj

            No actually you’re MORE ignorant then I thought.
            I dintend hate guns bit I do hate the ignorance you spew out.
            Disrespectful is YOUR bag , I didn’t call the president an evil monster. I suppose you think that’s respectful huh???
            Get an education, grow a brain , grow up and shut up.

          • DaveM

            Freedom of speech my stupid hemorrhoid!

            Tell everyone…what lie can you put out that you have done something for this country….? Lie fecal constipation lie! You are the ascaris lumbercoides of the liberal world!

          • Loangirl

            Obama is hoping and saying his Islamic prayers that we form a Revolution! That way, he can declare Martial Law! That is his plan….and it seems to be going well for him. We must get the right person in office, then force them to do the right thing! I mean force it!

      • Rx7pj

        Just what do you think was taken from you???

        • DaveM

          Freedom/….liberties…the ability of people like you to be heard when you are the minority!

          • Rx7pj

            Can’t list them can you, I’ll ask one more time, what freedoms and liberties (specifically) have been taken from you??
            By the way people like me me are NOT in the minority.

          • DaveM

            Even if I did you would try to destroy my topics!




          • Rx7pj

            WOW hit a nerve huh. i figured you couldn’t list any freedoms you lost because you HAVEN’T. You’re just a load mouthed right winged idiot that has NOTHING to offer except ignorance and hate.
            Grow up your childish insults just make you look stupid.

          • DaveM

            STUPID? look in the mirror!~

          • Rx7pj

            I just need to read your comments to see the prime example of stupid.
            Still can’t admit you haven’t lost any freedoms can you?

          • DaveM

            Keep posting your negative replies…I have told the world who you are Communist/ Marxist liberal pig!

          • Bonnie68

            DaveM it is really a very simple question. Everybody on these comments talk about the rights we are losing please tell us what are they. Maybe sevenmag can help you out with the answers. It doesn’t matter if you are Republican, Democrat, Tea Party, Patriot, Libertarian, Unknown, or No Party rights are rights. Everyone on the comments from these groups talk about rights disappearing, NAME THEM.

          • DaveM

            3. water RIGHTS TAKEN AWAY BY ILLEGAL ACTIONS OF stupid o Bozo
            5. Statements made that we are now a Muslim nation (POS)
            6. Parents no longer own their kids!
            7. 1-3% of the people are gay and the minority by bias supreme court judges allows same sex marriage
            8. Censorship of religious freedoms and actions
            9. The inability to talk religion on any military base
            10. The unsupported removal of military superiors who have disagreed with Ovomit!

            lol…what a troll….lol…lol…
            to much to list for the trolls that can not read!

          • Bonnie68

            DaveM I have copied your list and will check out these topics and see if I can verify any of these allocations. I will tell you exactly what I find no matter whose side of the debate it favors.

          • DaveM

            What is going to happen if you find everything i have said to be correct? As I have mentioned…you have been very liberal in attitude and I really do not enjoy chatting with you. God bless you and I will keep you in my prayers.

          • Well, Dave, I’m glad you’ve had the courage to list a few of the freedoms you’ve lost, so that we can all see.

            Let’s see – you lost your Freedom of Speed? Say what now? You mean you can’t exceed the speed limit now that Obama’s in office? You’ve been speeding all these years, and now in the last 7 years you’ve lost that “freedom”? Am I understanding this right? Or do you mean you can’t buy your meth or other speed from your local dealer? Sorry Dave, my knowledge of the Constitution apparently isn’t as deep as yours. Could you point out the part of the Constitution that guarantees your Freedom of Speed, which Obama has so egregiously taken away from you?

            OK, the NSA: Bush started the data collection, remember? Did you complain then? All the secret courts and the inability to challenge your name if it was on the “No Fly” list? All under Bush, remember? But it’s only NOW that you complain, when we have that “fake” in the WH?

            “The inability to talk about religion on any military base?” So, you’re in the military and you live or work on a military base? No? If not, then how does this supposed inability affect YOU? And exactly what are you talking about? Have military chaplains gotten the memo that they can’t talk about religion? Ask them.

            Water rights taken away by Obama? Where? Exactly where? Are you talking about California? Name the place. Name the action that Obama took. What water rights have YOU personally lost?

            “The unsupported removal of military superiors…” What? He’s the CIC; he doesn’t have any military superiors. And bosses fire underlings – even vice presidents of companies – if they disagree or don’t want to support the policies of the boss. And besides, what freedom of YOURS was taken away by any firing that Obama MAY have done to a military officer??

            I don’t have time to go thru your whole list. But since you’re such a courageous, outspoken Patriot, I’m sure you’ll want to support your claims and tell me how I’m wrong.

            Finally, Dave, let me ask you: why is that if you suspect someone is a “liberal”, you refuse to talk to that person? You only want to talk to people who agree with you? Ever get mad at your wife, kids, or co-workers if they disagreed with you? Or you just never interact with anyone other than your twin or clone? C’mon Dave, why can’t you stand a little discussion, a little potential disagreement?

          • DaveM

            I do not want to talk to a rain dead person! YOu are no doubt a liberal and a troll…LOL…LOL….LOL….YES….YES…YES

          • You’re the only one LOLing Dave. You know, you’re a sad sad excuse for a “patriot” Dave. You don’t have the courage or the intellectual capacity to talk to someone who isn’t in complete agreement with you. You can call names and LOL all you want, but all you’re really doing is showing everyone here how truly empty your brain is, and how unconfident you are in your beliefs. Because you haven’t said one intelligent thing, or stated one verifiable fact, that would support any of your statements or beliefs.

          • DaveM


          • Bonnie68




            did you really mean speed? So I think you
            meant speech. So here is what is happening.
            The following was in an negative article by the International Business Times

            [I]t is the obligation of all
            leaders, in all
            countries, to speak out forcefully against violence and extremism. It is time
            to marginalize
            those who — even when not
            directly resorting to violence — use hatred … as a central
            organizing principle of politics,” Obama said. The New York Times “portrayed Obama’s remarks as a strong defense of free
            speech and a challenge to Arab leaders to reform.” Then the (IBT) said “If only that were true”

            But January 2015, in Washington, The Republican National
            Committee’s top officers formally
            censured Michigan member Dave Agema on Wednesday for what they called
            “harmful rhetoric” and demanded his resignation.

            Here is some common sense- We who live in
            the US have free speech. The problem in
            the 21st century is people have forgotten that sometimes it is
            better to shut-up. You do have the
            freedom to say anything you want. But
            that doesn’t mean you should. For
            instance, your wife ask you if this dress makes her look like she gained
            weight. You think “Yeah like 25 lbs.” Is it a good idea to tell your wife
            that. No I don’t think so. But that is a very simple example but can be
            applied across the broad spectrum of life.


            Obama asserted his administration had tightened the phone records
            collection program since it started in the George W. Bush administration and is
            auditing the programs to ensure that measures to protect Americans’ privacy are

            Everything else I viewed says the same thing. We found out that Bush was doing it, we were
            furious. But Bush kept doing it and
            assured us that it was getting watched over by a judge. The problem with
            Americans is, this is Obama, and the republicans have constantly told us all
            these bad things so we do not trust him.
            But the collections of data (and notice I said data) is absolutely
            necessary because of ISIS. The people
            need to know that we really are not being spied on, they are looking for
            connections. If you are not contacting
            foreign countries that support terror than why are you worried. Are you looking on the internet to find out
            how to build a bomb out of regular things?
            I hope not. There are only certain
            things that hit their computers to look at.

            3. water RIGHTS TAKEN AWAY BY ILLEGAL
            ACTIONS OF stupid o Bozo

            At the end of this paragraph I have given
            you a web site to look at that will explain what is going on about the water
            rights. I noticed the signs going up all
            over the place and had no idea what it was all about. It has the approval of the republican led
            Congress in 2014 and this year. So
            anyone who is worried about it should look at this website and decide for themselves
            if it is alright since Congress is backing it.

            4. forged AND ILLEGAL VOTING RIGHTS

            I am sure you meant foreign and illegal.
            Anyway, I did not find any reference to any of the Immigration bills or
            Executive Orders going into effect. In
            fact what I have seen, seems as if they have not. The DREAM Act was constantly
            voted down by Congress. The Executive
            Order on Immigration has been stopped in Texas.
            Having said that, the Constitution sets out the conditions on who can
            vote in any election. If you know of someone
            who has voted and is not supposed to vote because they are an illegal, they are
            doing it illegally and should be reported.


            Here is a very good example of how things get stirred up and spit
            out. This author received a letter from “This letter was ostensibly from
            Senator Rand Paul! Look, that’s his name on the return address label” This was
            right after the massacre of little children in Sandy Hook. On the envelope it said “In the coming
            weeks, I will use whatever power this office holds [to ban guns].”– President Barack Obama” The
            problem is that is not what Obama said.
            This is what Obama said after those little children were killed. “In
            the coming weeks, I’ll use whatever power this office holds to engage my fellow
            citizens, from law enforcement, to mental health professionals, to parents and
            educators, in an effort aimed at preventing more tragedies like this, because
            what choice do we have? We can’t accept events like this as routine.” The other thing of note with this particular
            case is the person that showed the envelope lives inn Fredericksburg, Virginia. The Senator is from Kentucky.

            The killing
            of those children is what started the concern about guns and the freedom of
            getting guns.

            Federal Gun Laws

            Federal law regulates gun ownership to some degree, including placing
            restrictions on the ownership of certain types of firearms. The National
            Firearms Act (NFA), for instance, places restrictions on the sale or
            possession of short-barreled shotguns, machine guns, and silencers. In order to
            purchase one of these “NFA firearms or devices,” owners must go
            through an extensive background check, purchase a tax stamp for the manufacture
            of the firearm or device, and register the weapon with the Bureau of Alcohol,
            Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives’ NFA registry. However, it should be noted
            that some states, including New York and California, have prohibited the
            ownership of these types of firearms and devices.

            Under the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, you cannot
            have a gun for personal or business use if you:

            1. Were convicted of a crime punishable by being in prison for more than one

            2. Are a fugitive from justice;

            3. Are addicted to, or illegally use, any controlled substance;

            4. Have been ruled mentally defective by a court, or are committed to a mental

            5. Are an illegal alien living in the United States unlawfully;

            6. Received a dishonorable discharge from the U.S. Armed Forces;

            7. Renounced your U.S. citizenship, if you are a U.S. citizen;

            8. Are subject to a court restraining order that involves your ‘intimate
            partner,’ your partner’s child, or children; or

            9. Were convicted of domestic violence in any court of a misdemeanor.

            The Brady Act’s lasting legacy has been more than 100 million Brady-mandated
            background checks have been conducted since its passage in 1994

            5.Statements made that we are now a Muslim
            nation (POS)

            On June 2, The Fox Nation featured
            a headline stating, “Obama Says U.S. Is a ‘Muslim Country.’ ”
            However, the June 2 New York
            Times Caucus blog post
            to which the headline linked noted that, in fact, during an interview with
            French television station Canal Plus, President Obama said: “[I]f you actually
            took the number of Muslim Americans, we’d be one of the largest Muslim
            countries in the world.” This was posted by an organization called “Media

            6. Parents no longer own their kids!

            can’t find any reference pertaining to parents, kids, and Obama

            7. 1-3% of the people are gay and the
            minority by bias supreme court judges allows same sex marriage

            There is estimated to be 3.8% of the
            population that identify as LGBT. The
            problem that we have is deciding how to deal with this. Only 14 states have not legalized their
            marriage. Is it biblical, yes indeed it
            is, it is not allowed. The majority of
            the country feel it is okay to allow them to marry. We don’t have to approve. We aren’t the judge and jury, the higher
            power is whatever everyone calls their higher power, for me it is God. We are
            here for equality. We are here for
            freedom. If you had a girlfriend that
            you lived with for 10 years and she had a horrible accident, she was on life
            support and a decision needed to be made by her next of kin. You could not make that decision. These kind of things is what the couples live
            with every day. They can’t get insurance and so on. They want equality, they want freedom.

            8. Censorship of religious freedoms and

            The only thing that I know and can find
            about this is the Religious Freedom Restoration Act that has been passed by the
            Feds in 1993 and by some states recently.
            That is what I first wrote and then I found these George Lakoff | Posted 10.10.2012Obama Defends
            Freedom of Religion: Be Not Afraid of Mitt RomneyNEDRA
            PICKLER | Posted 02.06.2014Obama:
            Religious Freedom Key To National Security, U.S. DiplomacySarah
            Pulliam Bailey | Posted 02.26.2014Obama
            Champions Religious FreedomDavid Gibson |
            Posted 07.22.2014How Gay
            Rights And Religious Freedom Are Impacted By Obama’s Executive OrderAshley
            Alman | Posted 02.05.2015Obama Calls
            For Balancing Free Speech With Respect For Religion

            9. The inability to talk religion on any
            military base

            That is the first instance I found. Pentagon confirmed that
            “religious proselytization is not permitted within the Department of
            Defense.” The regulation is not new. Proselytization means pushing religious beliefs on those
            who don’t want to hear it is a form of harassment is forbidden under Defense
            Department policies.

            The unsupported removal of military superiors who have disagreed with Ovomit!

            a troll….lol…lol…

            to much to list for the trolls that can not read!

            DaveM one of the things that has been said many times
            through my research is, one person saying one thing bad about this president is
            spread a million times, BUT when the truth is revealed that is not told as
            often. This president is hated by the
            right. Before he even took office the
            right vowed to make him a one term president.
            They set out to lie, cheat and steal everything they could to demonize
            him. If someone is not a liberal they
            are not going to look for the truth. So
            we look to see if what they say is the truth.
            9 times out of 10 it is false. So
            when I can I will try to explain the lies with fact. I honestly believe that if everyone would
            look for what was really said rather than what someone said was said, a lot of
            people would understand that Obama is working for this country. But first they would have to make him a white
            man. And Dave I am white. The republicans had no other reason to act as
            they did before he ever took the oath of office. I said it them and I’ll say it now, those
            white men do not want to be lead by a black man.

            Also, you implied that I am a troll. I am not.
            I could care less. But when I am
            on a comment section and people are spouting off a bunch of things that I know
            are false. I set the story straight. I
            hate searching through the web. There is
            so much misinformation you have to wade through that it takes forever to find the

          • C’mon Dave. I’m curious too. What liberties or freedoms have you PERSONALLY lost? No generalities or personal attacks. Please name a few.

          • DaveM

            I could list many but you have not been honorable to let people see who you are and have blocked all your answers on your history. It is evident you want to stir the pot and look big. May I suggest you stand up when you flush the toilet as POS like you need flushing! Go ahead…fire a smart Alick answer and try to stand up as a man! It is people like you who have the freedom of speech but have probably not sacrifice anything for it! Ever spend time as active duty military? What work do you do for the community? Lie you tale off jerk!

          • Not willing to answer a simple question?
            And I didn’t realize my past postings were blocked from view. I’ll look into that. It wasn’t that way in the past. I’m certain not ashamed or afraid of anything I’ve posted here

    • kathleen_smith121

      I am tired of all this blogging. How about suggestions on how to take it back, organize it and let us all know so that we can join!! Blogging accomplishes NOTHING!!

      • Sevenmag

      • Margorie


        • DaveM

          We need a revolution…from many there will emerge one!

      • reggie

        Start at the local level. The brain dead need to wake up. Check out the 10th Amendment Center and nullification. States rights trump the federal government by Constitutional Law except within closely defined parameters. Recall panty waisted governors, recall judges, recall mayors, recall the traitors in Congress..

      • Bonnie68

        They want you to keep blogging, they want you to keep spreading the word of how bad the USA is, how many rights you are losing, how life is so bad and on and on. They want you to spread the fear. They tell you all this scary stuff but if you look it up most of the stuff is only spread by their group. Oh, I know it is because they are the only ones that see it. Oh come on. They hate Obama so everyone else should. You want suggestions, here is one, go on the internet and search on some of the topics, and try to find anyone else talking about the same thing. You will find alot of posts from these people, but look for credible information and most of the time you will not find a thing to support their belief on the subject because they want control.

    • festmatt5440

      Some of us learned , in 2012 , that free’ and honest ‘ elections , are a thing ‘ , of the past .

      • Rx7pj

        Just what do you THINK you learned???

        • DaveM


    • Detriotcity

      Lock and load This is the only way that we will be able to get this government to understand that they work for us – not the other way around. Do you agree?

      • Sevenmag

        I absolutely agree. Try this website;
        You’ll love it.

    • Rx7pj

      Time for you to get the hell OUT

    • Frankdidit

      Donald Trump/Ted Cruz

    • Gary_L_Thompson

      That’s ridiculous. Obamacare is the best chance we have of finally making real headway at the ballot box.

      When Obama was running for his second term, the Democrats put a series of ballot proposals on the Michigan fall ballot. I don’t believe they seriously believed they would pass, but their real purpose was to rally their base so they would keep their electors, congressmen and blunt the Republican sweep of the state offices two years prior. They were quite successful in that.

      However, Obamacare would not rally the base, it would rally everyone sick and tired of being oppressed by the federal government. If the ballot proposals were cannily chosen, say something that would pass 70, 80 or even 90 percent, the wave of anti-incumbent fever that would be drawn to the polls would be a poison pill of Democrats across the board. And stuffing the primary ballot with proposals repealing any state laws implementing Obamacare would be an ideal weapon for RINO-hunting season as well.

      I would also include some ballot proposals outright nullifying certain provisions of Obamacare itself. There are aspects of the law which would never stand except for constant lies by the Democrats and their media allies that the negative consequences (like death panels) will never happen. Well, make any interference with a patient’s care needed to preserve his or her life to be homicide, for example. The leftists may challenge these state laws approved on the ballot in federal court, but they can’t do it without coming on record that such laws would conflict with Obamacare because the negative consequences these state laws would prevent were indeed intended by Obamacare all along (their lies to the contrary). The laws can’t be struck down as unconstitutional without adding momentum to growing nationwide belief that the federal courts treating states and their subdivisions as their private colonies is unconstitutional abuse of the courts power, and need to be stopped (I imagine the open borders and gay marriage are other hot-button issues which can be used to reestablish the proper roles of the federal and state governments, and get rid of corrupt and despotic judges for once and for all)

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