Goodbye General Lee!

by Eliana Dockterman | TIME  |  published on July 2, 2015

dukes of hazzard 660TV Land is yanking the 1980s show Dukes of Hazard amid controversy over the Confederate flag, which is prominently displayed on the roof of the Duke Boys’ car, named the General Lee.

The move, reported by TheWrap, comes as the country debates whether the controversial flag has a place in media and public spaces. After a mass shooting at a historically black church in Charleston, S.C. last month, South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley and President Obama have called for the Confederate flag to be removed from the South Carolina statehouse’s grounds.

“Removing the flag from this state’s capitol would not be an act of political correctness. It would not be an insult to the valor of Confederate soldiers. It would simply be an acknowledgement for the cause for which they fought, for slavery, is wrong,” the President said during the funeral service for Rev. Clementa Pinckney, one of the victims of the shooting.

  • DDC SR

    I hope you get this message! I found the true and only Statue of Liberty and stand over looking the area of Plymonth rock, carved out of Granite rock by our founding Fathers! The one that stands in the New York harber was made for another country and that country turn it down be cause of what it stood for , the statue in New York is the statue of the godest isis, which the bible tells us of the new Babalon will be destroyed in the end times, that makes me think that New York is the New Babalon city and it will be destroyed in the end times! Please take a look at the Statue of Liberty I told you about over looking Plymonth rock will they want too take it down too

  • DDC SR

    Proverbs 22:28 remove not ancient landmarks which thy father set, The Confederate battle flag did not stand for slavery read your history books and find out the truth stop Listening to the federal government and the civil rights movement they are wrong! Dont let them take our freedom stand up and be counted! The civil rights movement and the federal government has a lied to us too often its time too take a stand. The Confederate battle flag is a flag of Heritage not a flag of hate or Slavery, the next flag they will want to take is the stars and strips Old glory!

  • antiquityjohn

    It’s sounds like everyone has all these Idea’s witch sounds great ,but nobodies doing anything to change things. Stop paying taxes let’s see what happens when these politicians don’t get paid. We have lost respect from all because of the liberal left I know one thing this country was started on disobeying the people who tried telling us what to do.

  • antiquityjohn

    Remove Martin Luther King he created more problem than anyone from the south.These men who are being so called removed did more for this country then 20 King’s ever did.

  • ltbrown

    How do I get TV Land removed from my cable so that I can keep them from getting any more from Comcast? Does it take a law suite to may the FCC break up the bundling in Cable so that the consumer can vote with their pocketbook? I think that I should find a way to start a new Cable company which has full a la carte choice so that I can force out of business the bad media and those which are racist (BET) in nature or offensive (the porno channels), violent which children should not watch (most of the new cartoons) and even Disney’s leftwing perversion. Who’s with me on this one?

  • Thomas Goss

    I’m glad that I don’t watch TV Land but if I did I wouldn’t any longer. Are these people nuts? What has happened to my country? Some nut case killed 9 people and he is considered a racist because there was a picture of him with a Confederate flag. Maybe he was a racist but that doesn’t mean that we have to destroy everything with a Confederate flag on it. I don’t have a Confederate flag now but I will find one and will fly it whenever I so choose. If you don’t like it to god dam bad, this is America and I will do my part to honor those brave Confederates who died defending their land. I am sick of the political correctness and people bowing down to those who don’t like the way things are here. I say if you don’t like our past then get the hell out of my country. Oh and take that ILLEGAL MUSLIM LYING HALF BREED in our White House with you.

  • frofer

    I have, now, ceased to watch TV land and will boycot any sponsor on the channel.

  • Ron Hirschkind

    Here’s a few things we can get rid of. Showboart, Dixie, Swanneee, Ole man river, camptown races, Porgy and Bess, and of course Obama. All of this is just a load of propaganda. See Stalin, See Hitler.See Nazis. Americans have been made so dumb and stupid that nothing will save us.And this fall, the Poop will save us with global warming. What a fake he is.

  • Lindy

    Soon the left will be burning books. Hey, Obama didn’t hesitate to fire the head of GM or order Chrysler to sell out to an Italian corporation and now he is going to interfere with the redskins deal. You are getting a taste of communism folks.

    • festmatt5440

      Exactly ‘; in the 50’s ; we were warned about the evils of ” Communism “, and I never thought that it would come to ” U . S . “

      • Lindy

        They posed as democrats.

  • Grammy6pak

    Slavery had nothing to do with the SC massacre no more than the flag was responsible, if we don’t stop this BS we are going to be a communist country in no time! Obama promised to transform America, is this what you wanted? The Government is trying to take away all of our liberties and when they can tell us what we can eat, watch, think, and view then we are no longer a free people! Wake Up America we have to stop this! It’s time to just say HELL NO! we are not going to stand for this!

  • gerald Hughes

    I live in a rural area, I fly 3 flags.
    I fly the Stars and Strpes, I fly the Confederate battle flag and i fly the flag of the USMC.
    Anyone that would laike tpo take any of them down, come on down.
    I won’t even call the cops, well except to come get the bodies

  • Ken V

    The blacks are too damn stupid to realize that the civil war was not about slavery but rather about states rights. They have been fed a
    One of BS from the NAACP and the Democratic Party to stir up division and hate. I suspect there will be another civil war here in the U.S. For the same reasons States Rightsss. This time the Southh will. be victoriously. Obama and his communist government has pushed this country too far and divided it to much. In effect the U.S. Will never be the same.

  • jdbixii

    Sentiments are more than skin deep or represented by the colors of a flag. Sentiments will not change by removal of the symbols which represent them.
    History, Social Studies and Civics, taught in the North, informed us that Reconstruction was hard on the South. There was a great deal of resentment in the South because of it. Whether for reasons of racism, or the profound economic impact which the abolition of slavery had on the South, there have been enduring sentiments in the South which, frequently, target blacks, who, in essence, are the enduring symbols of the reasons for which the Civil War was fought. Truly, it is tiresome. It is so tiresome that one can only wish it would simply disappear! Having had to tolerate the rehash of the same issues for our entire lives, as a white person, one can only wish that there had never been the introduction of slaves into the country in 1619. No other issue, with the exception of the foreign conflicts in which the U.S. has been involved, has so occupied the daily life, news and politics of the nation. The utterly ridiculous measure of, in essence, outlawing the symbol of the Confederate States of America, a fact of history, however short-lived, will do nothing to change the hearts and minds of people who, for whatever reason, are affected or motivated by difference.

  • mustang6984

    It is an act of P/C indeed! It is also an act of insulting those for whom the flag means independence, and the right to be an individual.
    That flag today is no more racist than the American Flag…which the punk was seen burning.

    Removing the flag from ANYWHERE along Memorials to those who were leaders or changing of street names or school names is a slap in the face to the heritage of Southerners of then and now. It is like being told that their values don’t count, and that attitude, could lead to a lot more problems in the future. Permanent and irrevocable problems.

  • Dudley DoRight

    The Confederate flag is the flag of the Democrat party.

    Every state that fought to KEEP SLAVERY was Democrat.

    Shortly after the Civil War, The Democrats formed the KKK.

    • festmatt5440

      The Confederate flag ‘. ” ( was ” ) the flag of the democratic party , which has now been commandeered ‘ by the “Communist ” party .

  • Alice Schultz

    How utterly absurd. The flag had NOTHING to do with blacks or the Civil War. It just goes to show that 0vomit knows absolutely nothing about our history or that war! For that matter, he knows nothing about anything – the zero can’t even give a decent speech without a teleprompter!

  • Louise Goins

    The Civil War started because the Southern states wanted to secede from the north/the union. It was because of money. The Union threw in slavery as an issue to rally support. Many southerners were abolitionists, just as many northerners participated in the heinous practice of owning other human beings. One would think that slavery was all that the Civil War was about. That is not true. Slavery existed in The USA. It should be something we know is a stain on the history of America. But it is a fact of American history. Just as the Trail of Tears in the removal of the Cherokee people. But the Civil War, contrary to movies and media, was not all about abolishing slavery. It would be awesome if removing a flag would remove taught hatred from people though. All human beings are one race- the human race. Hatred is from the devil and is taught by people who harbor hate in their hearts. I don’t see the Confederate flag as a symbol of hatred. However, since so many are genuinely hurt by seeing it then I would think removing it from government owned/operated places should be done. But trying to remove its existence from the past is not going to change history. Theres an old saying about those who forget history are destined to repeat it. I would hate if America ever has to go through another civil war. America is one nation under God, the God of The Holy Bible, home of the brave and land of the FREE. I don’t actually own or posess a confederate flag, but I see people are really getting upset about this. I think removing the confederate flag from government buildings is understandable and acceptable, but removing tv shows and trying to obliterate it from history is overboard. It is terrible that Americans are having such conflict and I hope it does not escalate further.

  • dmacid

    So much of Americas history is being changed by people that don’t want tuth to be known. When did they quit teaching real History in Schools? Add Govt class’ to that question. A lot of very good comments here.

  • Jean

    Ready to get rid of TV. I’ve been getting tired of the propaganda and gross commercials on tv land, anyhow. This does it.

  • Thomas Goss

    The sight of Obama makes me sick, so I want him erased from the earth. All you people are making something out of nothing pertaining to the incident in South Carolina. I am from New York and hold the confederate flag in honor of those brave men and women who died defending what was their homeland. This political correctness has gotten way out of hand. You don’t like the flag, well I don’t like lots of things, like Obama, fags, people who want to do away with statues honoring great men, flags just because they think it’s racist, people who want to destroy religion, and who dishonor our military. I say they should have to leave my country. You don’t like my attitude, well I don’t give a shit.

    • Ken V

      Obama keeps it up the people will rise up against him. Hence Civil War II. If that starts I can almost promise that Obama will be brought to justice, southern style.

  • reagangs

    The legacy of the General Lee and Old Dixie isn’t over. They will live in the Hearts of Dixie Land, forever. The carpet bagging politically correct thought police have no weapon strong enough to defeat that legacy. I would wager that even years from now, we will still be able to purchase these items, somewhere. Keep the Faith and never give it up. Remember the Alamo.

    • Jean

      Sure, It’s an easy item to make. You could easily add the blue white stripes and starts on any red top. Handing down family history is easy too. Just spend time with your family.

  • The redhawk

    So How soon will al of these PC Progressive Inbred by Cretins Morons going to Force any Pictures, Statues, or papers be REMOVED from the SENATE regarding KKK BYRD?????????????

  • gerald Hughes

    Fvck Obama

    • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

      Wow would you, really?

      • gerald Hughes

        Possibly, using a pig’s appendage, that would keep him for the 72 virgins, maybe then, Michelle would be happy.

        • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

          Gerald you said it not I

    • festmatt5440

      ‘ B u c K ‘ ‘ ofama ‘ .

  • Lorene B

    The battle flag was flying freely, and life was going on, until a sick person gave in to his desire to kill. Suddenly the flag is the culprit that is accused of doing it.

    For the TV station to cancel the show is to cut off one’s nose to spite one’s face. The show is light entertainment that makes people laugh. What’s wrong with that?

    • Jean

      The battle flag was not mentioned till Jeb Bush and Romney wanted some free air time. The church in Charleston was reacting with dignity and love. They were not name calling.
      Locals in Charlotte say the killer told the arresting cop that he was sent to start a race war.

  • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

    This is truly carrying something to far. The issue is on government property and that alone. Businesses that are attempting to get something out of this are as despicable as this flag flying above places where all are represented by their government. Also I might add I have become suspicious of Governors etc who came out strong for removal and now are just sitting on their hands, stalling. Wait long enough and it may become a non-issue is very poor thinking

  • bobnstuff

    I wish people would study history as much as they do football. First one of the main reasons for the civil war was the fight over expanding slavery into the new state in the west. The reason Georgia sighted for leaving the Union was slavery
    Yes economics played a part but it was an economy based on slavery that was front and center. Second, Google hate symbols and click on images and see what you get. The Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. Read what the man who created the flag had to say about it. You may not see it as racist but there is a large part of the country that does. Third, does the South really want to be thought as The Dukes, Is this the image you want the world to identify you by. The Stares and Bars has been used by the media as short hand for the good old boys of the South and not in a positive way. So if you want to be thought of as racist dumb hicks, rape yourself in your flag.

    • Gnowark

      A black indentured servant (A. Johnson from Angola), who after being freed, became the first recorded (Virginia territory) slave owner. But like today’s inner city gun violence, black on black is difficult to profit from ‘victim attitude’ (sharpton, jackson, obamao) without having a convenient oppressor/victim narrative which is easily identifiable, regardless of facts.
      I agree that State’s Rights was a much larger factor for secession,
      slavery being an example used, and 150 years later, history now becoming re-written to exploit victimization.

      • bobnstuff

        I don’t think they are rewriting history all that much yet, in this case. 50 years ago the teachings in the north was that it was the nasty slave owners who started the Civil War. They blamed it all on the South. I think now there is beginning to be a little improvement in that the North gets a little of that blame and Lincoln is beginning to get the blame that is rightfully his. The causes for the Civil War are not just one thing as no war in history was cause by just one thing. It’s just easier to teach a simpler reason. Most people don’t bother to learn history but
        they sure will fight about it.

      • icetrout

        look like the troll’s baiting U too… need to get the moderator to have him charged with a Hate Crime or something…DNC has infiltrators everywhere…

        • Lorene B

          Birds of a Feather

    • icetrout

      “rape yourself…” go PHUCK U R SELF Buckwheat ! U R Union FedGov is worse than any slave owner the South ever produced …

      • bobnstuff

        So, I guess not all the folks from the south deserve the respect I have shown to them, Just be glad they can’t sell you down river.

        • icetrout

          God Damn a Buffalo Buckwheat U R gut hooked on that FedGov Plantation KoolAid… didn’t even notice when they sold you down the river … bye-bye 🙂

          • bobnstuff

            So name a freedom the Feds have taken away from you. You have free speech, Freedom to own a gun, freedom of religion, Heck they didn’t even take away your flag of hate. So why do you hate the government so much. It’s because someone told you to and you are so dumb that you will let them do your thinking for you. You can’t even discus in a reasonable and intelligent way what you see as wrong. You have been sucking on the tit of hate so long you think it’s mothers milk.

          • icetrout

            Your stinkin ass Gun Rights haven’t been infringed upon… or Free Speech… God Dam DNC Troll ! try calling a queer a queer or going into Sunny Surplus & buying a German Mauser out of a Hogshead & just paying for it like it were a pair of surplus wool socks… Damn commie bastard… take that U sack-O-sh*t… 🙂

          • bobnstuff

            The government isn’t stopping you from calling a queer a queer, and I did walk into Dicks sporting good and walked out with my Mauser. Hand guns you have to wait for, that’s so some dumb person doesn.t go buy a gun to shoot somebody or themselves. They just don’t like you. No new federal gun laws have been passed in the last 6 years except for you now can carry in national parks. You will believe anything you over lords tell you.

          • icetrout

            Oh you walked into Dicks ,picked up a Mauser (which Dicks doesn’t sell btw) & paid for it @ checkout like it was pre 1968… U Libtrools love to imitate U R Traitor in Chief … guess U call black folk N*ggers as a greeting too… wonder U don’t burst into flanes lying like that… 😛

          • bobnstuff

            Yes they do, and some pretty good prices too. In store only, no online sales. Walked in, picked out my gun, showed my drivers license and about fifteen minutes later I’m walking out with my gun. It’s a Mauser made in Czechoslovakia before WW II. Got 500 rounds at the same time. If your are having a hard time buying guns you are either shopping at the wrong store or you have a problem that you don’t want to talk about.

          • icetrout

            U got more sh*t with U than a sewage disposal plant… not taking the bait apple-hole NSA is watching… :O

          • bobnstuff

            The NRA, salesman for the gun manufacturers. Bought and paid for by the Gun industry. They sucker
            you into believing that they are taking away your guns so you will by more. If it wasn’t for Obama and the NRA the gun industry would be in more trouble then they are. The number of gun owners is going down.
            People don’t hunt anymore, non of my kids want to go hunting. I’m hoping my grand son will but right now he wants to play computer games instead. So the gun companies must scare you into buying more guns. You aren’t even buying good well made guns like the Mausers or Mossburgs, you are buying AK-47, cheep Russian crap made in third world countries that you can’t find on the map. I will ask you one more time. What new gun laws have been passed in the last 6 years. Who said they are coming for your guns? Who is selling and who is buying. Your aren’t a Duke, you are Boss Hog.

          • festmatt5440

            How did you get so, ‘ stu -pid ‘ ; in only one lifetime ?

  • Dudley DoRight

    The Confederate flag is the flag of the Democrat party.

    Every state that fought to KEEP SLAVERY was Democrat.

    Shortly after the Civil War, The Democrats formed the KKK.

    • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

      OK so you are claiming that Democrats therefore have the right to decide on it’s removal while Republicans sit on the sideline, right?

      • Dudley DoRight

        What’s the sense of arguing with a liberal?

        • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

          You made the statement that Democrats are the ones whose flag is the Stars and Bars. I did not.Stands to reason that therefore they can decide what to do with it. Any argument you may have is not with me asshat it is with yourself, It is also an argument that based on your ignorant statement you can not win. Have a great one!

        • festmatt5440

          You can always tell ‘ a lefty ‘ , but you can ‘t tell them , much .

          • Dudley DoRight

            Democrats are to stupid to realize that they are communists.

          • festmatt5440

            ‘ Absolutely ‘

    • Gnowark

      I’m sure you’ve heard of LBJ’s comment (n-words voting democrat for 200 years) to try to get his keep-poverty-program passed (Ike’s was first Civil Rights Act)

      • bobnstuff

        About the time of Reagan the parties switched sides on many things. It was the southern Democrats that became the new Republican party. Look at the Republican platforms from the fifties and sixties. The New Republicans would never support
        any of it.

        • festmatt5440

          I used to be a democrat ,too , before it was commandeered by the ” Communist ” party .

          • bobnstuff

            I here that a lot but for the life of me I can’t find a Marxist thing they have done. Socialist a little but nothing Marxist. Sometimes I wonder if the people on the right know what Communism really is. From my reading I know that the early Christians were communists. Not Marxist, pure communism. Some times I think it’s just a big word to through around to scare people with. I know that the ACA isn’t communists because you get your insurance from a private company. Maybe it’s Social Security, that’s a
            government run program. People like Social Security so how can it be a evil communists program? I guess I just misunderstand what communism is.

          • festmatt5440

            As a young man ; my father was friends with , two ‘ families , who had gotten to the U.S. , just before Germany fell’ , to Hitler . I listened to them when they told of how ,everybody really liked Hitler , when he first came to power , and they thought he was going to be a great ruler ; He was a great speaker ,and sounded convincing ‘ ; in his promises to help the country .

            Then , they told of how he started started enacting new rules , without the consent of the people . He said it didn ‘t take long to realize , that he was a dictator .

            We were told a lot ‘ about ” Communism “; in the 50’s ; because we had just won the war . we were also warned to never let it happen in America .

            If you notice the comparisons ‘ I hope you will see ‘ ; that it now has arrived ‘ .

        • mustang6984

          That is a sad and worn out attempt of the Donkeys to cleanse their history of bigotry and racism. Nice try…but fail!

    • festmatt5440

      The Confederate flag ‘. ” ( was ” ) the flag of the democratic party , which has now been commandeered ‘ by the “Communist ” party .

  • The Hawk

    Hold the bus! This crap has gotten out of hand. All these liberals are doing is showing the world just how STUPID they really are. The Confederate Battle Flag during its existences has never and not to this date killed anyone. By the way idiots the Rebel Flag in not a racist symbol. Please do us all a big favor and get a life.

    • The redhawk

      INBRED uneducated Progressive Morons have NO LIFE… just nothing but BS!!!

      • podunk1

        See how easy it was to overthrow Amendment 1 and Amendment 14 … “No state shall make or enforce ANY law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizen…”

        Think about the fact that a corporation is not a citizen by supreme law… Corporations are creations that exist and operate at the will of GOVERNMENT, period! Obviously, corporations who are totally subservient to government whim are indisputedly subject to the Constitution the same as government!

        Obviously we have the media engaged with their “regulatory” masters in insurrection and rebellion against the Constitution!

        Irony is the fact that the rednecks are fighting government in a never ending fight for good. Boss Hog is unmistably the image of Obama, McConnell, Reid, Pelosi, and Boehner!

    • Arthur L. Trevallee

      The liberals are not stupid. They know exactly what they are doing. They are systematically destroying our country’s founding principles and are rewriting history. We are the stupid ones, for letting them do this!

      • mustang6984

        Might be time for each side to go their own way…let the libbies have their 15 states, and we’ll take the rest.

        • gerald Hughes

          it sems to be apparent, that we can no longer coexist with the liberal dem bloodsuckers and the perverts.
          WE must physically separate ourselves from them to avoid civil war

          • mustang6984

            I am pretty much ready for it. Thomas Jefferson sort of warned that if we went to far in the direction that we have gone politically…that this very thing might well happen.

          • gerald Hughes

            The state of Oregon seems to be our friend on this one, it is like that their 3rd Reich activiies will send a lot of people to agreeing with us.
            We will need to get it done soon, I have herd more shooting talk in th last month than in the 6 years before that.

          • mustang6984

            Actually Oregon is as bad as Califckya. The entire West Coast is lost.

            If a split were to occur…we would have a large swath of the Midwest from Canada to the Gulf and all of the South.
            The libbies would wind up with the West Coast as one country, and the upper Eastern states as another. In between…would all be controlled by the Midwest/South. Which means 2/3 of the food supply, 9.10’s of the natural resources and military bases as well as personnel. (two blue state would be sucked up into the red ones, New Mexico and Colorado…New Mexico heading to red slowly anyhow.)

            It won’t be a shooting war..it will come in the courts. There have been groups studying how to do this for the last 10-15 years. It’s coming…only question is when.

          • gerald Hughes

            Your split is probably pretty close, I do think there would be a little shooting, as soon as the split occured, Obama would be in trouble for tax money and would not be able to feed all of his homies on welfare and food stamps.
            The cheapest and quickest qway to ;lower those expensies, give them weapons and rounds of ammunition and 10 minutes training and send them over.
            Basicllay though you are right., this won’t be a rifle and pistol war, and none that has to live side by side, wants a nucllear war, even Obama isn’t that stupid

      • festmatt5440

        Our forefathers ,would have been using their guns , by now .’

        • Mike Homes

          Our forefathers had great insight’
          The libs have made too many of us fat, just content enough and more than too ignorant for the greater good of our Country.

    • dmacid

      I agree. Am sick of thin skinned P C people that want to change History to their fairy tale fantasy lala land

  • billyjshafer

    Slavery was not the main reason for the war. Most of the ones fighting for the south could not afford or had slaves. There were also black slave owners which most people ignore.The flag being fought over now is not the Confederate state flag.

    • The Hawk

      That is correct. There where black Confederate soldiers fighting in the war as well. The overwhelming majority of Rebels where fighting against the Union invading their states, lands, and homes.

      • The redhawk

        Now that will really get the LIBTARDS to go BALLISTICK… How dare anyone tell the TRUTH without them getting WADDED PANTIES… SPOT ON Hawk!

      • Alice Schultz

        True, and the odd part is there were blacks fighting on both sides! The war simply was never a slave issue.

    • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

      Just saying the secession papers for S Carolina as an example never mentioned States Rights however had the words slave or slavery 18 times. Seems quite apparent what was significant to the South based on that alone, sorry.

      • Luke

        Lincoln had the idea to abolish slavery 2 years after the war had started.
        The Civil war was about states rights regardless of the reason for that.
        BTW, only 6% of the population owned slaves before the war, many up north..

        • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

          Which part of your response has anything to do with my post? What role do Lincoln’s thoughts play in regard to my post. Interesting and informative as your post may be it simply does not explain what I posted. Nice spin though.

          • Luke

            You said the South, including SC, meaning the secession was about state rights, not just about slavery whether it was mentioned or not..

          • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

            I actually said it was not about States Rights and that those words were never mentioned. SO I have no idea what you are reading and you have no idea what you are responding to

          • Luke

            Obviously that’s your problem since you have all the questions and lack understanding..

        • Jean

          It was absolutely about state rights. As the SC declaration of succession states: The people of the State of
          South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D.
          1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the
          United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the
          reserved rights of the States,…..
          Was slavery wrong? Yes. However, the founders intended the states to work those issues out, not be dictated by a central government. Is abortion wrong? (which has drastically lowered the black population) Yes, but states should stand up against it. Would the USA be better off today, if states and counties were leading, instead of the elite national government. YES.

      • Jean

        The people of the State of
        South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D.
        1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the
        United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the
        reserved rights of the States,…..

        • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

          Make all the false claims you wish. The actual papers drawn up for Cessation NEVER mentioned States Rights NEVER. Does that confuse you? Sorry about using facts I know how hard they are on you.

          • Jean

            This is no false claim. This is the actual papers of SC’s withdraw from the union. Each state (except Alabama) made a list of causes. They then came together to form new constitution.

            The Constitution of the confederacy (similar to US) with clearer mention of state rights even in the preamble.

            The Preamble to the Confederate Constitution: “We, the people of the Confederate States, each state acting in its sovereign and independent character, in order to form a permanent federal government, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity — invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God — do ordain and establish this Constitution for the Confederate States of America.”

            The Confederate constitution is an interesting read about treaties between states, commerce, taxes. There are some seeming contradictions, that makes you think that they knew slavery was wrong. We know some were openly against it and perhaps they were influential in adding the contradictions.

            Article I Section 2 (basically the same as US Constitution) Although, the clause still only counts “three-fifths of all slaves” for the population total of each State, just as it did in the U.S. with the Three-Fifths Compromise, “The number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every fifty thousand”.
            The U.S. Constitution “The Number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty Thousand.”

            Article I Section 9(1)
            The importation of Negroes of the African race from any foreign country, other than the slave holding States or Territories of the United States of America, is hereby forbidden; and Congress is required to pass such laws as shall effectually prevent the same.

            Article I Section 9
            Congress shall also have power to prohibit the introduction of slaves from any State not a member of, or Territory not belonging to, this Confederacy.

            Article I Section 9 )No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed

            Article IV Section 3(3)The Confederate States may acquire new territory; and Congress shall have power to legislate and provide governments for the
            inhabitants of all territory belonging to the Confederate States, lying without the limits of the several states; and may permit them, at such
            times, and in such manner as it may by law provide, to form states to be admitted into the Confederacy. In all such territory, the institution
            of negro slavery as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected by Congress, and by the territorial government:
            and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories, shall have the right to take to such territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the states or territories of the Confederate states.

          • Luke

            Facts always get in the way of a liberal’s attempt at thinking..

          • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

            Just one question. How many times are slaves and slavery mentioned in the documents you quote in part?

          • Jean

            There are more “references” to slavery. I posted the majority of them. There are 2 more references in one of
            the other Seven Articles. You can read, I will let you find them. The number of times isn’t important, as some times it refers to the limitation of slavery. I will say that there are more articles and sections has to do with state rights-which has to do with commerce, trading, land, limitations of elected officials.

          • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

            Thanks for the reply I will look further. Happy 4th to you

    • Lorene B

      The argument was about slavery, but the war was over states’ rights.

      • The redhawk

        and ECONOMICS..

        • Lorene B

          Yes.

        • Jean

          A lot of my ancestors grew, picked and sold their own cotton without owning slaves. After the war, the blacks were entangled with the white citizens in a system of cotton-tenant-farming that exploited both races for the advantage of northern industrial capitalism. Before, both slave owners and non slave farms exported their cotton to Europe. The taxes on these exports is what started the war. We, the south, were taxed but not the north.

          • bobnstuff

            Economics played a roll in starting the war, what was good for the north economy was not so good for the
            south. By the time of the civil war one in four people in the south were slaves and cotton was king. Cotton took a lot of work to get to market and slaves did a lot of that work. The protective tariffs that helped build the industrial North hurt the South. With out manufacturing the South had to import what the north simply made for themselves. In a strange way you could almost blame Europe for the war, it was their exports to the US that was the cause of the problem. You truly can blame them for the South’s defeat. Had they given the support that the leaders in the south had hoped for and expected there would have been a whole different out come.

            My son in law and I have talked about what would have happened had there been on war and we both agreed that slavery would have gone away on its own buy the early 20th century. Even at the time of the war cheep Irish labor was beginning to make the lave impractical and not cost effective.

          • Jean

            That is right. 25% of the south was black, even though only 1 in 14 farms had slaves. Census’ show that most farms with slaves only had 1 or 2, which mean just a few must of the farms had multitudes. It’s sad that the black population is far down today. Abortion really has made them a minority.

            I too believe slavery would have ended as Lee and some others had great influence. His gentleman demeanor really had influence on the population. (I can imagine it much like how Reagan influenced people from both parties.) There are stories of Lee stopping to help wounded northern soldiers.

          • bobnstuff

            I can’t help but wonder how some of those good and great men got into the mess that was the war between
            the states. Jeff Davis wasn’t a bad person and Lee was a great General. I guess it’s the times that move men to do things that someone not there may not truly understand. What I do believe is that no one won that war. My great great grandfather on my mothers side
            was at Gettysburg and my dads father lost a uncle. What a waste.

          • Jean

            It was an awful war. Not that any war isn’t awful but this was brother against brother.

          • bobnstuff

            What I’m afraid of is it happening again. Just like the rich plantation owners got the average people all excited to go to war, people like Rush and Glenn are trying to divide the nation. Add in the Koch Brothers and you have the makings of a real problem. This time it will be a class war, The very very rich using the low educated lower middle class to try to take down the government. It’s all about economics again.

          • mustang6984

            It will not be a fighting war..it will be a legal war…one fought out in the voting booths and courts. But yea…I think it is coming. And not over just this issue…but a lot of issues.
            The minority of the country (and I am not speaking of color here but rather ideology) is getting too much control…and the rest are beginning to reach that final point of no return.

          • festmatt5440

            Most of us learned in 2012 ‘; the free ‘and honest ‘ elections , are a thing of the past .

          • The redhawk

            And plantations by Northern “ministers” get to vote multi times…

          • Grammy6pak

            Obama has done more to divide this country than any other person who has ever had any influence! He has his minions, Like Farrakahn, Jackson and others who are spreading hatred against white people. he had an opportunity as president to bring us together but he has destroyed that opportunity!

          • gerald Hughes

            What we have is the iberal dem bloodsuckers and the perverts tring to force us, through legislationti let them take control.
            That is not fgoing to happen, we must separate oursselves from the liberal dem bloodsucker and perverts, it is the only way to prevent civil war

          • mustang6984

            They got i to the War because they were Southerners first, Virginians (or other state citizens second, and Americans 3rd.
            Much the same today…and it is something mindless libbies and Northerners can’t understand.

          • gerald Hughes

            No, the liberals have convinced them selves that they will sit on the sidelines and watch.
            They are the ones primarily responsible for this.
            many many peopel are collecting liberal name s and addresses, they will not sit on the sideline.

          • mustang6984

            Liberals are going to be the cause of the split of the country. And in the end…their actions will be the cause of their own demise.

          • The redhawk

            Yes Economics Driven Political GREED!……….. Well here we go again..Industrial North Losing jobs and wealth… South still smarter at getting people to move there due to Jobs Creation and lower taxes…TX Jean.

    • The redhawk

      It was a war between an Agricultural society and the Industrial society with the EXCUSE of “SLAVERY” thrown in to Justify the whole thing!

      • Lorene B

        You are so right.

        • The redhawk

          and now that we have the “great Society” Fiasco which has caused more Divisiveness that ever before and capitalized by the BHO-ZO klan.. we are at the cusp of a real PROBLEM…. Here we o again…

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