Protecting Our Churches: Concealed Carry Coming Soon?

by Valerie Richardson - The Washington Times  |  published on June 20, 2015

6_182015_charleston-shooting-338201_c0-8-2000-1173_s561x327He was a young gunman bent on shooting as many worshippers as possible, but Matthew J. Murray never got as far as Dylann Roof, the suspect in Wednesday’s South Carolina church massacre.

Murray had already shot and killed two people in the parking lot when he burst into the New Life Church in Colorado Springs. Before he could pull the trigger again, however, the 24-year-old shooter was gunned down by Jeanne Assam, a volunteer security guard with a concealed-carry permit.

That was eight years ago, but even though Ms. Assam was credited for saving as many as 100 lives that day, a dozen states continue to restrict the carrying of concealed firearms in churches — including South Carolina.

  • monacall

    hahahahahaha. What’s concealed mean? Think about that one!

  • ARJAY

    The legislators here in Michigan, made the default standard that churches were “GUN FREE ZONES”! HOWEVER, they were smart enough to let the individual churches decide to opt in to ALLOW ANYONE with a Conceal Carry Permit, to carry, IN CHURCH, as long as the church opted for that situation.

    The church I belong to made the decision to allow Conceal Carry, in church permissible!!

    We have members that DO CARRY in church!!

    So guess what: Here in Michigan, criminals DON’T KNOW which churches ALLOW Conceal Carry!!

    SURPRISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    It IS a deterrent!!

  • The Apache

    Does anyone else have the opinion that the story above was buried in unwanted ads, and the 11 photos were difficult to look at? Then, why wasn’t the story more focused on the “gun free zones” being the criminal’s preferred arena? Why haven’t the churches, and their leaders automatically requiring security with armed persons to protect their “flock” as the good Shepard protects his flock from wolves, bears and varmints? If you really looked at the 11 examples, most of them just scared off the bad guy, like the 72 year old woman in Southern California did with one warning shot from her .357 (pistols are illegal in California)… Wonder if she was prosecuted? Our court system is also screwed up and dysfunctional, as well. If you are against gun ownership or for gun control, then don’t buy one. Remember an empty rifle is a bayonet holder.
    And there should be no restriction such as concealed carry registration to have gun protection at church. All reasonable and responsible gun owners, should obtain extensive gun training at FRONTSIGHT in Nevada. A minimum $200.00 course is available at frontsight.com. Go get training. Gun control is hitting what you aim at. Know what you are aiming at, and know what is behind your target. Safety first. The only one of the 11 is the first one, where the bad guy was killed. No court problems.

  • bobnstuff

    I just checked and in the last ten years there has only been one other church shooting that I could fine, the church death toll stands at 18 total. That’s two days worth of child deaths from guns but who’s counting.

    • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

      The 16th Street Baptist Church bombing was an act of white supremacist terrorism[1][2] which occurred at the African-American 16th Street Baptist Church in Birmingham, Alabama on Sunday, September 15, 1963, when four members of the Ku Klux Klan planted a minimum of 15 sticks of dynamite attached to a timing device beneath the front steps of the church.[3]

      Described by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. as “one of the most vicious and tragic crimes ever perpetrated against humanity,”[4] the explosion at the church killed four girls and injured 22 others.

      On July 27, 2008, a politically motivated[2][3] fatal shooting took place at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church in Knoxville, Tennessee, United States. Motivated by a desire to kill liberals and Democrats, gunman Jim David Adkisson fired a shotgun at members of the congregation during a youth performance of a musical, killing two people and wounding seven otheThe Waddell Buddhist temple shooting occurred in 1991 when nine people were robbed and killed at the Wat Promkunaram Buddhist Temple in Waddell, Arizona. Their bodies were found on August 10, 1991. The shooting is considered the worst massacre in Arizona’s history.

      On August 5, 2012, 40-year-old Wade Michael Page fatally shot six people and wounded four others at a Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin.[3][4] Page committed suicide by shooting himself in the head after he was shot in the stomach by a responding police officer.

      On the evening of June 17, 2015, a mass shooting took place at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in downtown Charleston, South Carolina, United States. The church is one of the United States’ oldest black churches and has long been a site for community organization around civil rights. Nine people were killed, including the senior pastor, Clementa C. Pinckney, a state senator. A tenth victim was also shot, but survived.

      In the immediate aftermath, police sought a white male, later identified as Dylann Roof, who was captured the morning after the attack in Shelby, North Carolina.

    • studi30

      BS, a church shooting took place in Georgia on 6/7/12. Two were killed and two were injured. One person was killed on 10/25/12 in an Atlanta church shooting. One church shooting was stopped by an armed parishioner 12/9/07. Jeanne Assam, a retired police officer in Minnesota, at The New Life Church, returned fire in the Church on a man who shot two dead in the parking lot and came inside and opened fire on the parishioners

  • Sama

    Some with permits carry in churches already but no one ever knows it.

  • danny kimbrel

    The ignorant lawmakers that restrict the people from carrying in churches need to stand in front of a mirror and point their finger at themselves and repeat these words “you and you alone are responsible for the death of so many worshiping church goers and need to serve time in prison for being an accomplice to the murders”

    • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

      The odds indicate more not less will die if guns are carried in Church,

      • danny kimbrel

        How do the odds indicate that when it is a known fact that once a lunatic starts shooting , the ones carrying put a couple rounds into the lunatic. it happens all the time although the lame stream media would never cover it because it would hurt their cause or should i say would prove their anti-gun policy to be a lie and then everyone would be carrying and the criminal element would have to go after them for their illegal gains

        • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

          Ok let’s use the South Carolina incident. A group of people at a Bible study and you want them to come prepared to violate a Commandment. People who care enough to be at a Bible study even if they had a gun according to you would violate one of God’s commandments and spend an eternity in damnation for violating one of God’s Commandments.Yeah ok that doesn’t even sound real now does it?
          You say it happens all the time and that is limited by what state it happens in. Since in many states the law is such that even in cases of self defense, there are requirements such as making an attempt to get away. In those states bringing a gun to Church does not sound like a reasonable attempt at removing yourself from the situation. Good responsible gun owners have been told what they need to do in their respective states and generalizing it as you think you can may not work very well for you.

          • danny kimbrel

            if you live where you must run, you will simply be shot in the back. and i will also say that i will not worry if i am “violating ” one of the Commandments because ,it says thou shall not MURDER. not thou shall not protect ones self from murder. if you want to perish from this earth so badly that you will allow the wolf into the flock, be my guest. i simply will not !

          • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

            How casually you avoid the law. This makes you part of problem and disinvolves you in any possible solution

          • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

            Most gun shows do not allow loaded guns to be brought in. At NRA meetings you can not bring a gun. At RNC meetings no guns allowed. At the Republican Convention no guns. In fact at a recent Republican Convention in Florida an attempt was made to suspend CCW rights for an entire city during said Convention but some ridiculously want to convince people guns in Church are ok?

          • studi30

            The NRA convention that just was in Nashville, permitted concealed carry of a loaded firearm, as long as the carrier met the State’s laws. None of the vendors weapons could be loaded. Most small gun shows don’t permit loaded weapons to be carried or sold. There are BATF agents roaming all gun shows. The BATF is the branch of the Federal Gov that controls the import, manufacture and distribution of all firearms in the US. They also license and inspect all firearms dealers.

          • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

            Oh really? The annual NRA convention during April 10-12 in Nashville, Tennessee.

            The rules are a bit ironic, as all firing pins must be removed from guns to be allowed inside.

            Even the giant trade show where you can buy, sell and trade guns falls under that umbrella. If you buy a gun at the convention, you have to take it off-site to have it reassembled.

            Is that a good safety measure or just a step too far?

          • studi30

            The Commandment is thou shalt not MURDER. IF ONE OF THOSE IN THE CHURCH WAS ARMED IT WOULD BE THEIR DUTY TO PROTECT GOD’S CHILDREN.

          • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

            That word murder comes about as man’s translation of a Hebrew word. Kill is also a possible translation of the word.And since you think that typing in caps is some sort of show of strengrh or what ever I am done with you

    • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

      Isaiah 2:4 (cf. Micah 4:3) has inspired many artists and peace activists throughout history. The verse describes what the millennial reign of Christ will look like: “He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore.”

    • ARJAY

      NOT just carrying in churches. What part of “[S]hall NOT be INFRINGED” do the “LAWMAKERS” NOT understand?!?!

      • danny kimbrel

        They don’t understand any part of it ,hence the constant assault against the 2nd amendment !

  • Benjamin Michel

    Switzerland has all it;s people armed. They all are trained and given a hand gun and a long gun that is man and woman.

    • studi30

      No, Switzerland only has the males armed in their citizen army, just like Israel. The female soldiers in Israel don’t do much fighting. They are trained as a last defense in case the Israeli army is over run. I lived in Israel and was there during the Yom Kippur War. The Swiss army gives each citizen soldier a fully auto assault weapon, a semi auto hand gun and many thousands of rounds of ammo for each.

      • chuck quinn

        The auto rifle is converted to semi auto. I was told this by a man from Switzerland who stayed at our Bed and Breakfast. He did not mention ammo or hand guns ,So I don’t have that info.

  • bobnstuff

    I see we have no Christians here this morning. Our Lord does not want us to kill each other., ever! Go read the whole bible. It clearly say that you will not kill. If you bring your gun it to the house of God you don’t understand his message.

    • Wmdoright

      Luke 22:36

      36] He said to them, “But now if you have a
      purse, take it, and also a bag;
      and if you don’t have a sword, sell your
      cloak and buy one

      • bobnstuff

        He didn’t want you to buy a sword he wanted you to get rid of your bag. In those days your cloak was one of your most needed belongings and not something to give up.

        • porriii

          You are a complete and total idiot.

        • Sylvester Jones

          Dream on you delusional fool.

      • SL

        Amen….The way for evil to prevail is for good to do nothing.

      • studi30

        The importance of the cloak is that in the area of Israel, Jerusalem, during the winter, the temps go down into the low 40s. Your cloak is the only thing keeping you warm. When I was living in Israel, it snowed 3″s of snow in Jerusalem, the first time in 50 years. Half of Israel is the Negev Desert and it gets down to the low 40s at night in the winter.

      • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

        Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. 25″For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.…

      • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

        In the Garden of Gethsemane, Peter took out his sword and cut off the ear of Malchus, the servant of the high priest. Jesus bent down into the dirt, picked the ear up, and miraculously reattached it. All too often, preachers have wounded and maimed people with their insensitive, sword-wielding way of preaching of the word of God. When preachers use their words as swords, they metaphorically cut off the ears of the people they are attacking. With their spiritual ears cut off, these people become unable to hear what the Spirit is saying.

    • nonstopca

      NO ARGUING with stupid.

      • Sylvester Jones

        Talking to yourself?

        • danny kimbrel

          You didn’t see who he was posting to ? the same guy you called a delusional fool

    • Real Deal

      I am a born and raised Catholic, at 16 I converted to Baptist. I have read the bible and learned about other religions for knowledge, It talks about an eye for an eye, and there comes a time, when you have to make a stand against evil, in whatever form it takes. As Christians ( of whatever belief we have) have to take actions. In an ideal world, you would hope to not have to resort to this, but I argue when evil threatens our very existence and our lives, you want to be able to protect ourselves, and loved ones, You do not want to have laws that disables, God fearing people, and lets evil prevail. There are plenty of references in the big book, that speaks to this. ( too many to list) It is all their if you choose to read it. Do we want to be like the Jewish (No disrespect for Jewish people, or their suffering) that allowed evil to prevail, and basically marched to their own deaths…IMO we have to protect ourselves and our loved ones or the deck is stacked against us by letting these sort of laws prevail. Their are many…too many to list, in the bible that backs this up. (it is all there for anyone to read, even with different interpretations). Would you want to sit idly by and watch your children, loved ones, or any decent, good people, and not be able to protect them, because of some stupid laws that would cripple you from protecting God fearing people. JMO there is a big difference from murder and protection!! I hope you or anyone else are not hurt, because of a law that would have prevented (all of us) and gave evil the upper-hand!!!

      • Real Deal

        I usually do not get into discussions about politics, or religion, because of so many different views, (most wars have been fought throughout history because of different religious beliefs) but sometimes you got to especially when it can affect all of our lives, no matter what beliefs you have! IMO

        • donemyhomework

          Yes, mostly Islam and they’re still picking fights and fighting.

      • Sylvester Jones

        I don’t know about any good people, only God is good.

      • bobnstuff

        I see you missed the whole meaning of the coming of Christ. No where in the teaching of Christ does he support your view. You have a twisted view of Gods word and I will pray for you to find Christ’s love. Also just so you know, when you bring a gun into your house you have increased the chance of being shot by four times. Your gun put your family in danger. 64% of all gun deaths are people shooting themselves.

        • studi30

          BS! There are 100 million registered gun owners in the US, one third the US population, with 450 million registered guns, more private gun ownership than all other countries combined. Ted Kennedy’s car has killed more people than all of them combined. Jesus has nothing to do with this. The World Health Organization ranks the US at 110th in murders per 100,000 population. At 5 per 100,000 murders with all weapons, not just guns, the other 109 countries with more murders don’t even permit civilian gun ownership.

          • bobnstuff

            You do know that 110th out of 178 isn’t all that good. If you look at first world nations we don’t look so good, dead last.

            How many guns are registered in America?

            That’s a seemingly obvious question without a straightforward answer. There’s no universal gun registry, and thus not a simple way to pin down the exact number of firearms in the U.S.

            http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/03/19/how-many-people-own-guns-in-america-and-is-gun-ownership-actually-declining/

            Almost every country has gun ownership, some more some less. And yes some third world nations have more gun deaths as a percent of population. We are 24th out of 178 in this study. Read it and educate yourself.

            http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list

          • studi30

            First I posted with all weapons, not just guns. Secondly, we have 313 million people in the US, more than most other countries. China and Russia don’t permit civilian firearms ownership. They also don’t report any facts to the rest of the world so we don’t know. The 450 million figure comes from the BATF, which is the Federal Agency that controls the importation, manufacture and distribution of all firearms in the US. The BATF also licenses all gun dealers and does surprise inspections of those dealers.The BATF also has agents roaming at every gun show in the US.

          • bobnstuff

            Read the links. Just because “civilians” don’t have guns there are still a whole bunch of guns in homes in both countries. None of my guns would be in the BATF listings so their numbers are of little value. My brother builds guns as a hobby and they would not be in that list. I also know of a number of guns that are no more but would have been counted. Lets face it there are no good numbers on gun ownership in the US. As long as the NRA can buy our government there will be no real numbers or control on who has guns.

      • studi30

        What does the Jews being murdered by Nazi Germany have to do with the Old Testament? The Old Testament says that if someone is coming into your house through a window, you have the right to kill them. In Jesus’ time, when Rome was occupying Israel, named by King David 3000 years ago, the Jewish zealots were attacking and killing thousands of Roman soldiers in surprise raids. HISTORY! During WW2, the Palestinian Brigade, made up of Jews from all over the world fought against Hitler in WW2. Many members of the Brigade fought against the six Arab armies who descended on the new State of Israel in May of 1948.The modern Israeli army has always been outnumbered 14 to 1 in every war it has had with the Arabs. Do you think they throw rocks at the enemy so as not to kill them?

    • Sylvester Jones

      Your ignorant of God’s Word.

    • Ron Coon

      Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

      Luke 22:36

      The LORD does not want us to murder people. Defending ourselves is quite different. For what reason do you think Jesus told a bunch of fisherman or shepherds to buy a sword?

      • bobnstuff

        Luke 22 v 35

        Then Jesus asked them,”when I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?”

        You really need to read the whole thing if you want to get the meaning. Sound bits from the bible are very misleading. He who lives by the sword dies by the sword.

        • studi30

          And then in verse 36, he told them to obtain a sword. You can’t just pick and chose what you want to believe.

    • danny kimbrel

      Does it say in the bible to be a lamb lead to slaughter ? somehow i don’t think so , who would follow a religion that say’s to get yourself killed by a lunatic ?

      • bobnstuff

        I guess you don’t follow Christ then since 8 of the twelve disciples died a martyrs death, If you aren’t willing to take up your cross and follow Christ you may want to go looking for a new religion. Try Islam, it’s a lot closer to what you believe.

    • studi30

      It says thou shalt not MURDER, not kill. When the Israelites came out of the desert, they were told by God to kill every man, women and child in the city of Jericho. Since it was God commanding them, it was not murder. Also go to Luke 22:36 and read where Jesus told his Disciples to get a sword and arm themselves.

      • bobnstuff

        Read the whole chapter, He told them that they needed nothing, If they wanted to that “things” then they needed to take a sword. He was telling them to leave their “things” at home. Go check what Jesus said about how we treat our enemies. Find one verse that Jesus said we should hurt anyone.

      • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

        A translation of the Hebrew could be taken as thou shalt not murder and would probably be more accurate however many people have learned it as thou shalt not kill. then the discussions get into what that means.

        • studi30

          The translation of the Old Testament, which was written in Hebrew, is the real translation. More modern translations that came in the Old Testament part of the New Testament are in Latin and Greek. There is a lot lost in translation to the Hebrew version, the original Old Testament. My Old Testament translation in Hebrew, as I am a Jew, differs from my wife’s Christian translation. Since the original Old Testament was written 2000 years before Jesus in Hebrew, Jesus as a pious Jew would have followed the orignal Old Testament.

          • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

            So are you tryiung to tell me that the word in the Old testament is only translated as murder and can not be translated as kill?

  • Sylvester Jones

    Every US citizen who’s family was born here should be armed by our government just like they armed the drug cartel in Mexico.

  • enubus

    Concealed carry in churches no chance with the left and Obozo. They want all guns taken away from law abiding citizens, leaving them totally vulnerable to the government and the thugs who will have guns. Britton and Australia and reaping the whirlwind of leftism and are suffering greatly. When concealed carry and open carry crime drops 80%. The socialist model hates religion, and self reliance, remember Hitler, Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot. Between them the killed 160,000,000 people in the 20th century. God will punish the evil ones, but it won’t be tomorrow unfortunately.

    • Ron Coon

      Obama is irrelevant. It is up to the State. Just as Obama would get legislation passed or imposed by executive fiat for items he deems of importance, but the citizenry is in disagreement with, we have to take the good with the bad. We cannot expect him to impose his will on items we are in agreement with and counter that same supposed authority when we are in disagreement.

    • danny kimbrel

      Wouldn’t it be sweet if it was though ?

  • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

    What weapon did Jesus carry?

    • podunk1

      God… but we’re no longer a nation of God, and like Sodom & Gomorrah, we’re reaping what we sow. So, if you’re a truly good person, you’re free to carry and dispatch demonic killer disciples of hell.

      • Sylvester Jones

        Truly good? There is none righteous, not one.

        • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

          I totally disagree with you I know some people who are indeed righteous. Just because eomeone disagrees with your warped sense of righteousness that does not make them not righteous

          • libsrtheh8ters

            The Bible says NONE of us is righteous, we ALL fall short.

          • studi30

            Only God is truly righteous. We all who believe in the ONE TRUE GOD, THE ALMIGHTY are righteous. THE SHEMA, which is not a prayer, but a Jews reaffirmation in God was said by Jesus. The Jews never believed in the Trinity, never heard of it in fact. The Shema says,”Hear O Israel, the Lord your God, the Lord is ONE”. No Trinity.

          • Sylvester Jones

            My sense of Righteousness is from Jesus Christ and Him alone, not warped humanity like you.

          • ARJAY

            Sylvester IS correct! At least ACCORDING to The Bible!!

          • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

            Actually it is according to an interpretation of the Bible. As I understand it Christian are boirn with mortal sin which is no longer there post Baptism.

          • ARJAY

            All people continue to sin, even after baptism. That’s why it is such a battle here on earth. We need Jesus’ help EVERY day we are alive to have the WILL to change. But we can’t change on our own. THAT”S why Jesus came to the earth, to save us FROM our sin, not LEAVE us IN our sin.

            That’s why our SALVATION is a GIFT, because we are not good enough to work to earn our way to heaven!.

            Even our “good works” are as “filthy rags” to God, without Jesus as our savior and mediator!

            So, with your Doctorate of Divinity, you should KNOW this already.

          • studi30

            Are you saying that for 2000 years before Jesus was born that Jews didn’t go to heaven because they were sinners? I guess Mary, who bore Jesus, was a sinner until Jesus was born. Since the concept of being born again came 325 years after Jesus died, the Jews who never had that concept for 5700 years, can’t go to heaven still.

          • Sylvester Jones

            Only one interpretation, God’s, you must be born again to understand Spiritual truths.

        • donemyhomework

          You’re delusional.

          • Sylvester Jones

            I’m adopted into the Family of God, truly God and truly Human.

          • studi30

            And I, as a Jew, was born into God. No need to go through any conversion. Do you believe the Jews were God’s chosen people? If so, why can’t a Jew go to Heaven if he isn’t born again? I have been married for 32+years to a Saintly Christian woman. We get along famously, as neither of us has a say in the other’s beliefs.

          • donemyhomework

            The bottom line from what I read is that religion is a game played by people, not God. Men wrote the books, not God. Men are the one’s who say their book is the word of God. Not God. To say that one person is a prophet, and knows the word of God is not true, Believe as you will and it’s alright. Most of what men write is about control, the Church, and the power of religious leaders.

          • Sylvester Jones

            You will die to regret your stupidity.

          • donemyhomework

            No I won’t. And I know that. I don’t have to believe. You have to believe. Because you’re not spiritually developed enough. Have you done any research in near death experiences? I’ve done extensive research reading thousands of accounts. You don’t need to be a prophet to be a prophet. That spiritual world you look toward is way beyond and way different than the simplified text that you adhere to. The word of God is spread all over the planet. But no one and no book exemplifies the true nature, the true magnitude of the way things really are. You’re perception is the same as being locked in a closet. Whereas, my perception is the openness of Galactic space. And the truth is that there is nothing to fear because we all came from there. We’re all part of there and here at the same time. It’s not about hate and condemnation but about love and knowledge.

          • Sylvester Jones

            Your mentioned in the Bible, Psalm 14 & 53, double emphasis: The fool says in his heart there is no God.

          • donemyhomework

            I didn’t mention anything in the Bible, you did. And I didn’t say there was no God. You inferred that on me. You are so pedestrian.

          • Sylvester Jones

            If she’s saved she will go to heaven, you’re definitely not so enjoy hell. She can’t be saved and not teach you Biblical truths.

          • studi30

            And who are you to judge me? Are you God? Yes, my wife will go to Heaven and I will join her there as Jews have done for 5700 years, without being saved. I can’t go to Hell, as according to Judaism there never existed a Hell or Satan. Remember Hell and Satan were invented by the Catholics 325 years after the pious Jew Jesus died. Jesus didn’t have a concept of Hell or Satan either.

          • donemyhomework

            Sylvester is an ignorant nut case full of dogma.

          • donemyhomework

            You’re still delusional.

        • studi30

          My wife is a Priest Server on the alter at her Church every Sunday. She is a Saint. Don’t paint all with your broad brush of poop.

          • Sylvester Jones

            Saints are Born Again Christians, not Born Again not a Saint.

          • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

            Shw me where in your Bible being born again is a requirement,.please It was insufficient that Christ died the death he did? Really?

          • Sylvester Jones

            You’re a fool, ignorant of God’s Word.

          • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

            See there is where we differ if I Call you a fool My God gets very angry with me.

          • Sylvester Jones

            You don’t worship the one and only God, Jesus Christ, Read Psalm 14:1 & 53:1, the fool says in his heart there is no God. You worship satan.

          • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

            Again an ignorant statement. If there is no God, there is no Satan.

          • James Stanley

            John 3 King James Version (KJV)

            3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

            2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

            3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

            4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?

            5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

          • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

            That refers to Baptism and one need only be baptized once

          • James Stanley

            No, that doesn’t refer to Baptism. That refers to being born of your mother and being born of the Holy Spirit. Being born again is accepting what Christ did for us on the Cross, Praying and asking His forgiveness, and then believing by Faith that you are saved.
            You asked to show you where in the Bible it is required to be born again, well, you’ve been shown.

          • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

            Maybe you consider being born of water being born of your mother but you are so very wrong. I do forgive you though

    • Sylvester Jones

      He came to save humanity by His sacrifice, he has and always will the power of God Almighty who wiped out humanity for their sins but saved one family on Noah’s Ark, no homosexuals period.

      • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

        Then, if there is truth to ytour claims, He carries no weapon? The greater shgame is that few if any on the right including yourself unserstand the forgiving side of Jesus who came to complete not to continue God’s punishments and you just switch Them up midsentence

        • studi30

          And he that turns the other cheek gets that cheek ripped off also. You anti gun Libterds haven’t got the family jewels to protect yourselves. I am surprised to find you, a Libterd, actually not an atheist.

          • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

            Again confusion? How many times did Jesus tell you his kingdom was not of this world? According to Him you earn your way while here but that is it.
            Now as for antigun there is a rifle 2 feet away from me as I type and close by a short barreled .357 with those pretty little bullets that have a pink point. There goes that theory. Next my knowledge of Christianity which is indeed better than most Christian Conservatives knowledge. Knowledge does not mean I am a Christian. I respect all beliefs and because of respect I learn all that I can about as many as I can. I have in the past indicated I hold a Doctorate of Divinityand it was not bought as they usually are in the US.

          • Sylvester Jones

            Your doctorate doesn’t mean your not ignorant of Spiritual facts, And you definitely don’t earn your way to heaven.

          • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

            I do not claim to be perfect I am not a Christian Conservative. Only they claim perfection despite simultaneously trying to be righteous and admitting flaws. You most assuredly earn your way to heaven. Are you trying to tell me it matters not what your life on earth is like? You can rape,murder fornicate and that doesn’t matter? Really?

          • ARJAY

            YOU ARE WRONG!!!!!! You can NEVER earn your way to heaven!!

            Here’s the PROOF: EPHESIANS 2:8 & 9

            (KJV) Verse 8: For by GRACE are ye saved through faith; and NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is the GIFT OF GOD:

            (KJV) Verse 9: NOT of WORKS, (see that? NOT of WORKS, therefore you can NOT “work” your way into heaven!) lest any MAN should BOAST.

            (Emphasis is mine)

            You said, “Next my knowledge of Christianity which is indeed better than most Christian Conservatives knowledge.”

            Then you said “I have in the past indicated I hold a Doctorate of Divinityand (sic) it was not bought as they usually are in the US.”

            Hmmmmmm, so much for your “Doctorate of Divinity”! Very plain text in that verse. NO interpretation needed!

            So YOU go ahead and TRY to EARN your way to heaven. You will be SORELY disappointed, when you meet your MAKER!

          • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

            LMAO you have completely perverted those quotes to try to prove a point. I do believe in the Christian Bible there is a mention of the use of scripture by evil. An Evil that will pervert Scripture for it’s purpose. You have provided a perfect example. In the first casethe means provided for entry into Heaven is credited to God I said noithing to contradict that. In the second Case what is said is you can not bvuy your way in with money or gold or whatever other than good acts. There is no way to be good with God and live a life of sin, is there?

          • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

            As you sow so shall you reap

          • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

            In the New Testament Jesus tells his followers they are to “turn the other cheek.” The call to turn the other check is a call for human rights. In the first century when someone would slap you with the back of their hand they were treating you as an object rather than a subject. But when you turn the other cheek they are unable to land a second dehumanizing slap and instead must strike you with a blow reserved for an equal. You force them to recognize your humanity, to confront you as a person rather than property. They may still strike you, but this time they will recognize your right to be human.

      • studi30

        Jesus wasn’t around when Noah’s Ark was. The Old Testament was the book of God for 2000 years before Jesus. In fact, the New Testament wasn’t formally written until 325 AD. That is 325 years after Jesus died. There was no New Testament and the Jews don’t believe in Hell or Satan which came after Jesus in the New Testament.

        • Sylvester Jones

          Jesus was always around and always will be. He spoke the world into existence.

          • studi30

            Nonsense, 2000 years before Jesus was born, the Mashiach was being waited for by the Jews. Jesus was not the Mashiach told about in the Old Testament. In fact, according to the Old Testament, Jesus couldn’t be the Machiach. The Machiach will be from the lineage of King David, and since Jesus isn’t from the lineage of David as he was a virgin birth, to Jews he can’t be the Messiah.

          • Sylvester Jones

            Things of the Spirit are Spiritually discerned, your Spiritually dead, you must be born again, John 3:3, which is God;s choosing, apparently your not chosen for heaven, hell i’d say yes.

          • studi30

            Nonsense, all you quoted is revisionist history from the New Testament written 325 years after Jesus died. There was only the Old Testament as read by the pious Jew Jesus. Everything you read in the New Testament is revisionist. One good example is the concept of Hell and Satan. The Jews never had that concept, ever. So when the New Testament was formally written 325 years after Jesus died, the Catholic Council of Nicea wrote their own story.

          • Sylvester Jones

            You’re a delusional fool.

          • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

            Again My God would be ever so upset for you trying to usurp His job as only he is the one to judge anyone, including you

          • Sylvester Jones

            You are a fool, ipso facto.

          • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

            Ouch! that one stung huh? Throw out some more childish claims I love deflecting them and watching you whine

          • Sylvester Jones

            Enjoy your eternity in hell.

          • studi30

            You are so deluded. How can you believe something from a book written 325 years after Jesus died? John is from the New Testament. The Old Testament was the Bible of Jesus. Who are you to decide who apparently isn’t chosen for Heaven, God? Jews were going to Heaven 2000 years before Jesus, and continue to go to Heaven, 2700 years after him. Again, do you believe that the Jews were God’s chosen people? If so, than you must believe that God’s chosen go to Heaven without being born again. If you can answer my question, you have your answer.

    • lee

      He tells his disciple to tae money and a sword with them because they go out among wolves.

    • SL

      The Word of God.

      • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

        A very good sincere and apropos response. I do question though because Roof sat there for an extended period of time while the Word of God was being discussed and taught then he killed nine people?

    • libsrtheh8ters

      None, which is why he was murdered too.

      • Sylvester Jones

        He wasn’t murdered He gave His life so we may live with Him eternally.

        • Raymond J Ambrozaitis

          Thank you Sylvester but I am afraid that some people create a Bible as they would like it to be and then quote theri thoughts and not the Book. Not unlike some politicians quoting the Forefathers with sayings they never said

        • ARJAY

          Jesus was put to death for crimes he was ACCUSED of doing, but didn’t. He was an innocent man that WAS MURDERED by a mob mentality, by the Jews! With the blessings of the JEWISH LEADERSHIP’

          • studi30

            ARJAY, BS. Jesus was put to death by Pontius Pilot. The Jews were conquered by the Romans and being crucified by the thousands because they wouldn’t bow down to the false gods of the Romans. The Jews were subjugated by Rome and had no say in anything in how the country was run. Jesus was a pious Jew who followed the Old Testament. The New Testament was written 325 years after Jesus died. Since the Jews never believed in Hell or Satan, never, how could Jesus be talking about it?

          • Roy Smart

            Hate to break in…BUT Jesus, who did NO WRONG, was NOT put to death by Pontius Pilot because he washed his hands of trying Jesus, he said I FIND NO FAULT IN THIS MAN!!! IT WAS THE HIGH PRISTS AND JEWISH PEOPLE WHO TOOK THE LIFE OF MY SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST WHO LAYED DOWN HIS LIFE FOR US!!! IT TOOK A SINLESS MAN TO TAKE OUR PLACE UPON THE CROSS SO WE DON’T HAVE TO PAY FOR FOR THEM!!! ALL THE SINS OF MANKIND OR THOSE THAT ARE ACCEPTED HIM THROUGH HIS PRECIOUS BLOOD!!! BUT YOU HAVE FIRST BELIEVE HIM, THEN ASK FOR FORGIVENESS AND TURN FROM THOSE SINS!!! THEN HE SAID HE WOULD FORGIVE!!! SO IT’S NOT THROUGH GOOD WORKS BUT THROUGH REDEMPTION AND THEN YOU HAVE BEEN REDEEMED THROUGH HIS PRECIOUS BLOOD!!! I know that seems so simple BUT IT IS THE SIMPLE TRUTH!!! JESUS DID PAY FOR ALL THE SINS OF MANKIND WHO WOULD TRUST HIM AND BELIEVE IN HIS “PRECIOUS HOLY NAME”!!!

          • studi30

            Well, for 2000 years before Jesus, Jews were going to Heaven. Good quoting from the New Testament by the way. Pontius Pilote would have never said those things about Jesus. He hated Jesus. He would never claim Jesus as his savior, because as a Roman, he believed that the Emperor was his god. Hundreds of thousands of Jews were crucified because they refused to bow down to the Emperor of Rome The New Testament was written 325 years after the pious Jew Jesus died and is revisionist history. For 2700 years after Jesus, Jews are still going to Heaven. As God’s chosen people, and not having anyone die for our sins, I guess the Jews have managed to survive. They have guarded Israel, the center of the earth where God’s energy touches down, for the coming of the Mashiach, as predicted by Revelations in the Old Testament.

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