Sanctions are failing, North Koreas economy is growing

by
August 1, 2017

North KoreaFormer Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld kept a satellite picture of the Korean peninsula in his office that showed South Korea at night lit by millions of lights–and North Korea dark except for a small dot: Pyongyang.

At a 2006 Pentagon briefing he was asked if there could be effective diplomacy with the North Korean regime without a strong military deterrent “in their faces.”

“Probably yes,” he said, but only time would tell. The Bush Administration, like the Obama Administration that followed, was committed to diplomacy while unwilling to speculate about the use of force when it came to dealing with the hermit kingdom.

Years later, there are new signs that diplomacy and sanctions are not only failing to deter Pyongyang from building up its nuclear arsenal, but there is growing evidence the country’s economy is actually improving.

  • roboteq

    A petulant child who does not respond to passive teachings eventually needs to be spanked. North Korea’s leaders have all been petulant children. China is North Korea’s guardian angel. If the U.S. spanks North Korea, we risk China defending North Korea. If the U.S. doesn’t spank North Korea, we risk being attacked by North Korea which would begin another world war. Which way should we risk?

    • Roy Fredrichsen

      We will just have to wait until little Kim gets brave enough to launch a missel at us or our allies, THEN we can let loose the “Junkyard Dogs” on him and “take him out” once and for all and claim “self defense” to keep Russia and Iran at bay.

    • What would you expect a nuclear-armed petulant child to do if he was backed in to a corner and given the option, as Japan was in WW2, with being exterminated or fighting back as best he could? Stop running war games off of their coast with lined up warships and they might stop being so “petulant.”

      • roboteq

        Seriously? We are the reason North Korea is the way it is? And “we” backed Japan into a corner prior to WWI?
        All I can say is that you have no sense of history or reality. If Kim keeps pushing, China or not, we will at the least do a few bomb runs on North Korean military facilities. It probably would have been better if we had already done this.

        • WW1?

          • roboteq

            Sorry about the obvious typo. Yes, I do know why Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. But I’ll bet you have a different story to tell me about why Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, so since you brought it up, what is the reason you believe that the Japanese attacked the U.S. at Pearl Harbor?

          • Our president gave their emperor the choice between two options:
            1. We could starve them by tightening the embargo that already had them barely subsisting.
            2. They could attack us and preserve their honor.

          • roboteq

            Not exactly the way it was. Yes, the U.S. did have an embargo on Japan, but that embargo was not causing Japan to starve. Japan was on the warpath with China and opposed all U.S. influence in the Pacific because Japan wanted all resources available in the Pacific for itself. Japan believed that by attacking Pearl Harbor, that the U.S. already in battle with Germany, would back off of the Pacific and lessen our support of China. Japan was wrong, and it cost them.
            In every respect; Japan was the undoing of Japan. It was Japan’s decisions that caused the U.S. embargo and it was Japan’s decisions that caused the downfall of Japan. The U.S. merely reacted to Japanese aggressions. Now you know.

          • I know that you believe every bit of propaganda you are fed, regardless of the improbability of most it it.

          • roboteq

            Every source on this issue states the same thing. What source are you getting your information from? Or are you one of those who has secret information that no one else has?

          • Are their sources footnoted or assumed?
            Remember that the victors write the accepted history.
            The president was talking about a compete embargo.

          • roboteq

            Do you have something to support your claims or not? I am not a fan of FDR, but I see nothing wrong with the embargo against Japan and history, from every direction, indicates that Japanese aggressions were the only reasons behind Japan attacking the U.S. at Pearl Harbor. The same reason the Japanese attacked the Philippines the next day. The one constant about the embargo against Japan was Japanese aggressions. The Japanese thought they could dominate the world, and so they tried. It had absolutely nothing to do with Japan starving because of U.S. embargos. That is the most foolish thing I have heard about why the Japanese attacked the U.S., so if you have something that supports your claim; post it, or stop making such ridiculous claims.

          • Answer my question about the sources or STFU.

          • roboteq

            No. If you are not going to be civil, I will assume you have nothing to support your absurd claims and will ignore any further unsubstantiated claims from you.
            I wonder if you are aware that Japan was hit the least by the Great Depression and it used its added resources to build its military in order to take advantage of the depression and dominate Asia. Then again, from your posts, you don’t seem to be aware of very much at all on this subject.

          • You are blocked.

          • roboteq

            LOL! And the head goes into the sand.

  • kbfallon

    The Chinese are using the money that they make off the junk they sell to the American consumers….and helping the North Koreans….just as they did back in the fifties when the war was going on there and lied about saying they were not doing it….they are Allies–like it or not.

  • messup

    In northern regions of North Korea (on satellite maps) nightly pictures depict swaths of blackened areas. These are border regions with Southern China’s bustling economies (all coastal shipping and transportation). This darkened region of North Korea is the worlds largest untapped source of “rare earth” minerals employed in every single “new age” Internet device on the planet…and China has tapped into this huge source of IT wealth at bargain basement prices. Secondly, one has to review President Clinton’s administration several “tainted” -pay-to-play – accords with PRC (Peoples Republic of China) as regards sophisticated, advanced missile and weapons technology. Thirdly, PRC negotiates with NOKO these barter agreements of secretive USA technology for raw IT material. Estimates of this trade arrangement go as high as $80 billion dollars. So, sanctions by USA on NOKO will have little to no result in its missile and weapons development program. Pray. Amen. God Bless America and ALL Americans. Read A Bible. NKJV Psalm 128. Feckless USA diplomacy is another abject failure. Thank you US State Department.

  • mudguy1

    In order for sanctions to work sanctions, must be put on any country that dose business with North Korea.

  • CCblogging

    Sanctions on NK will not work and a war would be short but devastating to SK and maybe Japan if Kim’s missiles can get there and I understand that they can now. The solution is to take out Kim and his top generals.

    • metheoldsarge

      The loyalty the chubby little brat dictator enjoys from his people is based on fear. He enjoys ordering executions on a whim and has even had a relative shot after an argument. If his people lose their fear of him, he will be in trouble. As far as I know, North Korea is the only Communist country that is ruled by a dynasty. The only thing that surprises me is that the high ranking generals haven’t taken him out yet.

      • kbfallon

        He had an uncle who he disliked……fed to a pen full of starving dogs. Supposedly they tore him apart and ate him up. The Chinese are keeping him afloat to keep our eyes off of what they are doing…..you can’t trust any of them.

    • kbfallon

      The South Koreans also have a huge trade imbalance with us and do not like us much more than the North does….. while we spend millions helping to keep them from being over run by the Crazy Fat Kid north of them.

    • truthseeker

      Kim’s top Generals would surrender in a second. You know they just fear this Dictator .

  • American Me

    China has to be helping them and lying to President Trump about trying to get them to stop developing Nukes.I believe it is all a lie.So we will have a very difficult decision.If NK shoots a Nuke our way,do we fire one or more back and wipe them out or due to the fear of killing South Koreans hold our fire???Hopefully our missile systems will be able to take out any nukes,and we can use MOAB’s and Cruse Missiles to level the place.We could Carpet Bomb the place too.That little Fat Boy needs to be taken down a notch or two.

    • kbfallon

      Exactly ! Maybe the next time that Dennis Rodman goes over — he can exterminate little Kim while having rough sex with him.

    • runnindeer

      I agree and I also feel that Iran is helping them. Russia might be involved but I really don’t think so. It wouldn’t be in their best interest.

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    • truthseeker

      I read somewhere that the MOAB is actually a Neutron Bomb . If that is the case, then one Bomb could fall any where near Kim and still keep all of the surrounding building in tact .

      • Geneviejeiler

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      • The MOAB is an air-fuel bomb, not the least bit nuclear, let alone a neutron bomb.

  • DrBillLemoine

    Sanctions are half-hearted and half-baked, so not biting hard. Stopping a few China banks from laundering money won’t change an entire criminal regime. Unless China and other nations dealing with Kim and the North are sanctioned to the max with every Kim interaction, that’s a lost cause. Hacking, strong defense in the South and Japan, private discussions with China about impending armed conflict should accelerate as the window to stop Kim before American territory is in real jeopardy–about one year, I estimate. Time to start talking tough, not ‘stop talking’ as UN Ambassador Nikki Haley stated this week. As ambassador she must know you never stop talking, the main purpose of the UN. Trump’s military and diplomats must step up their activities before it’s too late and only military action will be effective. Why isn’t Tillerson in North Korea? Where are the evacuation drills in South Korea, especially from Seoul that will be pounded first and hardest in armed conflict? There’s just not enough alarm, enough alacrity with such a dire problem in the Trump administration from top down.

    • Jmanjo

      Keep in mind that previous administrations (Clinton) catered to giving away our technology and halfheartedly sanctioning North Korea. By doing so they severely limited what Trump can do diplomatically especially since the UN does not have a spine when it comes to enforcement! BTW, does increasing economy mean that they have two flashlights operating in Pyongyang instead of the customary one?

      • DrBillLemoine

        Ever hear of the P5+1 Iran agreement which stopped their nuclear advancement? No doubt we should have done the same with North Korea, but they are finicky about talking. Remember the looooong negotiations at Panmunjom over many months just to get a cease fire, not even peace treaty, on behalf of the United Nations forces which united to stop North Korean and China aggression? I don’t know of ANY technology we gave to the North. What is it? News to the world.
        Once the UN gets it together it is a good enforcer worldwide. You are the reason we had WW2, conservatives post WWOne wouldn’t join the League of Nations to talk through issues and avoid another Big One.
        You’ll have to ask China and Kim what increasing economy means. I don’t know. What I know is somebody in the North is wearing a nice insulated winter parka donated by me decades ago to keep somebody from freezing to death.

        • chw2000

          Talking to NK is a lot like trying to talk to a fence post, or you. The fence post has already made up it’s mind that it’s not going to listen. Just like you! And NK is just like you AND that fence post. The difference is, the fence post is really good at what it does and no one on here is to sure about you!

          • DrBillLemoine

            How many different ways can you say the same thing? Beyond the repetition, indicative of lack of ideas and arguments, you are right about Kim. Like all tyrants, he responds only to force I’m afraid.

          • NM Leon

            Too funny coming from the idiot libtard troll who only parrots the Dem talking points of the day.

          • chw2000

            Pile it higher and deeper Bullschitte Billy. That’s exactly what your P H D stands for. Now go away and play with yourself.

          • DrBillLemoine

            Totally lost your train of thought; strong bigotry will do that to right wing thinking. Consider ‘repeal and replace’.

          • Strong bigotry will derail any line of thought based on the left-right socialist paradigm.

          • DrBillLemoine

            ‘Splain.

          • ‘Splain what? The left-right paradigm is totally socialistic because its end caps are communism on the left and fascism on the right.
            http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz/quiz.php

          • DrBillLemoine

            Have you considered substituting other political ‘isms’ into your sentence in lieu of ‘socialistic’? This is too simplistic because it can apply to many dimensions of national life–economics, politics serve equally well, making the thought moot for any one has strong bigotry involved. But all of them can be discussed–‘line of thought’, bigotry or not. It’s meaningless, endures because of a certain pseudo-intellectual lilt or tone.

          • How about collectivistic, since that is the basis of socialism, and it isn’t an -ism?
            “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.” Albert Einstein

          • DrBillLemoine

            Faulty comparison–physics with human relations.
            Nice distraction–can you keep with the topic of Kim and North Korea?

          • Where’s the physics?

          • DrBillLemoine

            Didn’t you watch the ‘Genius’ series on Einstein? Physics reduces the complex to simple equations. You can’t do that with humans.

          • I haven’t owned a television since my last one was stolen in 1987, so if it was on TV, obviously not.
            His quote wasn’t about physics, it was, as he said, about “(E)verything.”

          • DrBillLemoine

            The ultimate simplicity is ‘singularity’, a focus of Steven Hawking, another physicist, not dealing with human relations.
            So you listen just to Rush???

          • I have never listened to anyone named Rush.

          • Kim is no more a tyrant than Trump is.

          • DrBillLemoine

            You might have an argument. Justify, please.

          • A tyrant is “a cruel and oppressive ruler” and they are both cruel and oppressive.

          • DrBillLemoine

            At a pretty superficial level, you are right. But killing your brother-in-law in a foreign country? Keeping a hostage until he’s comatose and nearly dead before release? Keeping all but the elite around you in clover while the rest of the nation scrambles for food and endures unrelenting poverty? No comparison–yet.

          • Abraham Lincoln was able to convince brothers in the United States to kill their blood brothers in the CSA, so brothers-in-law killing each other over similarly created differences between countries is something that all politicians have become quite competent at. Trump is as proud to call himself the commander in chief as Hitler was to call himself the fuhrer, and they both did and do exactly the same things to their own countrymen and foreigners for the same purported reasons. Those in the elite have always oppressed those not for the purpose of keeping themselves in clover. Not a thing has changed since the first bully bullied his first victim.What kind of comparison are you waiting for? That Trump and Hitler were related by blood? They are both fascists.

          • DrBillLemoine

            Lincoln didn’t have to ‘convince’ people to fight over slavery and the issues surrounding. But you’re onto something about wars being fought at the behest of leaders typically by ‘aggrieved’ citizens–maybe only in their minds. Ideological Freedom Caucus and Trump supporters are such propaganda believers. Most of us Americans simply want what’s right, ideological or not.
            I don’t equate Trump and Hitler except in fascist labeling. Trump did not murder enemies despite his rhetoric of ‘beatings’ in rallies. Trump did not abolish the Constitution as Hitler did the Weimar Republic. Trump can’t abolish the media. Pride has nothing to do with their political differences. It’s power that governs.
            But at base they ARE both dictators.

          • Dictators are tyrants are dictators.
            The American “Civil War” wasn’t about slavery, it was about southern secession and reconquest. Trump, as commander in chief, has been responsible for the deaths of thousands of non-American non-combatants in the countries that American troops invaded without declarations of war by Congress. That makes him not only a tyrant, but also a traitor.
            You need to revise your definition of fascist if your reality doesn’t conform with history.
            The Constitution was dead before any of our parents were born. It is just kept around so that it can be used to fool people like you with lip service.

          • DrBillLemoine

            And just why do you think ‘southern secession’ was an issue–in congress and among the states? Slavery and related economics and social justice.
            You are confusing Bush and Trump. Bush started 2 wars, Trump none.
            Labels are immaterial, it’s actions that count. You are attributing stuff to Trump he hasn’t done.
            Nonsense about a dead Constitution. Only posse comitatus and anarchists believe that. Which are you?

          • If the “Civil War” had been about slavery, Lincoln would have emitted the Emancipation Proclamation before the initiation of hostilities against the CSA instead of after the reconquest was assured.
            Bush didn’t start any wars. He unconstitutionally, unlawfully, and treasonously ordered the invasion of several countries that had never threatened nor attacked ours. Trump merely redeployed troops to the continuing occupations and ordered new murders. Did you miss Trump’s attack on Syria?
            Posse comitatus was killed several NDAAs ago.
            Anarchism is an unworkable theory like Marxism.

          • DrBillLemoine

            Let’s keep it straight. The South seceded starting hostilities. They wanted to maintain international support, particularly Britain, so called it ‘states rights’ etc. We have to recognize reality.
            Cheney via Bush initiated invasion of Afghanistan and then Iraq. How is it you don’t know this? By definition that’s starting wars. What has this to do with Trump and North Korea? And Trump bombed Syria, not starting war but continuing one already going (and we should add such bombing had absolutely no effect on anything, maintaining a fiction that he isn’t in bed with real Syrian leader Putin).
            Bundy family and others in his vicinity STILL believe only local government is legitimate–not dead. Again, how does this relate to Kim sanctions and economy growing?

          • If that is the definition of starting a war and I still have the right to keep and bear arms to defend myself, I have the right to shoot the next government official that obviously violates my rights.
            When did Putin become a Syrian leader?

          • When the fence post has a line of chain saws being waved it it, it is likely to be highly agitated, in similar fashion to how North Korea feels about having a line of American warship off of its coast.

          • chw2000

            The post never gets agitated. It just keeps doing what it’s good at.

          • As don’t and do the neo-cons, even though they will eventually trigger worldwide nuclear war in the process. They don’t care, they are nihilists.
            What would you expect the American military to do if China or Russia lined up warships up and down our east coast? Surrender, like we are asking North Korea to?

          • chw2000

            Well, Russia and China have a right to have their warships in international waters just like we do. It’s not exactly an ace of aggression.

          • They have never lined them up like we routinely do off of North Korea’s coast, inside their territory.

          • The sanctions that Trump just signed are acts of war under international law.

        • NM Leon

          You really are a delusional idiot, Bullschitte Billy. Slick Willy DID make the equivalent of the P5+1 agreement with NK called “The Agreed Framework”, and like Obozo he didn’t get Senate ratification. Slick Willy directly gave light water nuclear tech to NK, and indirectly gave them missile guidance tech through China. He didn’t give them hundreds of billions in cash like Obozo did with Iran, but Slick Willy gave NK 500,000 tons of heavy fuel oil per year.

          Like The Agreed Framework and NK, the P5+1 will ultimately result in an Iran with nukes.

          WWII was the result of Wilson’s incredibly stupid Versailles Treaty.

          • Jmanjo

            Bill is a loon that likes to see himself recite trivial hogwash! Liberals tend to do that when they are wrong and confused as to what is really going on! Explains why Republicans always have to come in and clean up all the Democrat failures!

          • NM Leon

            Yep, but he’s fun to play with sometimes.

        • Jmanjo

          Bill, the League of Nations was a joke too. Wilson got chewed up over that flop too! The UN enforced only when the US was the main force backing the action, some others did a fine job but it was America that held the lion’s share of the burden. Clinton tried and failed to control NK proliferation! They should have kicked NK butt years ago before the nukes became an issue but China and Russia were impediments then and now.

          • DrBillLemoine

            League of Nations failed without our participation. Wilson succumbed to isolationist sentiment abounding before and after the war, just like Trump today. It’s counterproductive not to talk constantly in a neutral forum. Nowadays as #1 in the world, global leader, the USA must keep talking. We got the Security Council permanent members to negotiate Iran stoppage; now we must do it for NKorea. Haley is wrong to say talking is over, denying her role in the UN AND western power leadership. America leads the UN, NATO, and non-negotiated affairs everywhere, that is, until Trump took over and shortsheeted personnel for SecState. He’s an ass not knowing anything about governance or international affairs. We are really suffering at the hands of tyrants everywhere from his ignorance and inexperienced appointees.
            Right now we have a serious problem; it does no good to assign blame, just find a way forward. I don’t think anybody ever relied on China and Russia like Trump to do the right thing. He’s a hard headed slow learner, but the light is coming. Let’s hope it’s not a nuclear glow over our allies or US territory.

          • NM Leon

            Newsflash Bullschitte Billy, China and Russia are permanent members of the security council and have blocked meaningful actions re NK.

            We did not get them to agree to an Iran “stoppage”, they got Obozo to agree to a pro Iranian deal that guarantees Iran will be a nuclear power.

            You are an ignorant fool.

          • ezekiel22

            The U.N. is a joke anymore. The ideal was at one time good. The organization is rife with corruption and has no problem supporting kleptocrats. I am of course assuming you do keep track of their actions. They were supposed to stand for human rights and if you looked at that as well as the make up of the various councils you will find some of the world’s worst violators of human rights not only members but also heading those commissions. Too much power too much greed too far gone.
            We are now faced with not only a nuclear North Korea but one that supposedly can or very soon will deliver a nuclear payload to our shores. Yeah, we can anhillate them but pretty sure China and Russia won’t stay on the sidelines. Madmen like Kim jong Un have no problem sacrificing everyone else but them so you can figure he will fire one at us. Don’t forget Iran in this either. We are now paying for past administrations efforts of appeasement. Clinton okaying the sale of nuclear reactors to Korea. obama paying ransom. Clinton okaying the sale of 20% of our uranium to Russia. As you know that has only lead to many more deaths and more suffering. The U.N. has no intention of doing anything. They are afraid of China economically. Russia as you should know will play the wait and see game.

          • DrBillLemoine

            Any time nations can talk about their problems, the globe and anti-hawks are winners. That’s the role of the UN. Plus you can’t respect other nations and forbid them from holding high office in committee work. You simply don’t understand working with others, some of whom may not agree with you. No managerial skills.
            Kleptocrat dominated Russia is a permanent member of the UN Security Council. We are not supporting them; they are assuming their assigned place as a major factor winning WW2 as FDR and Churchill both agreed, neither a Russia supporter.
            In any large organization you will find corruption and the UN is not exception. One of my principals when I was teaching was supportive of me, and found to be a crook selling stolen school supplies and his fiance’ was stealing Business Manager funds. Good workers–bad morals.
            What is your solution to North Korea? None’s been found over decades. Also, have you forgotten it was UN forces that fought the Korean War?
            Are you back at Iran again, like Trump? We have nuclear non-proliferation for 15 years. Aren’t you ever satisfied? Even Russia agreed there.
            You still misunderstand the uranium gathering, a good Obama idea. I’d rather have Russia safeguarding it than Mexico which gave up its stockpile. The news you cite from history is still questionable. Just what deaths have occurred? You never say.
            The UN has China as a member; no fear. What’s your justification for this nonsense statement? So much wacky thinking. You don’t actually talk this stuff over outside of your own mind, do you?

          • ezekiel22

            Doc, when it comes to North Korea the guy is a mad man to say the least. The world has never been good at judging them. Right now he is holding Seoul as hostage because it is under threat of artillery annihilation. Yes, that much is on the border aimed at Seoul. Common knowledge is that the city would be done in about 20 minutes.
            I was listening to a former general today talking about how North Korea is about 12 to 18 months from making a hydrogen bomb. Oh joy! Along with the missile threats that idiot will be getting paid ransom soon so that he will be a good boy. The sad thing is that China could take him out but since he is operating under their umbrella pretty sure you can figure out the probabilities. The way it stands now lives will be lost because action should have been done sooner.
            I have a hard time dealing with corruption and just shrugging my shoulders. Never liked being an enabler. It is just like aid to the Palestinians. Stop it all! Right now it is estimated that half of the aid goes to supporting terrorists for killing jews. Right now the monthly stipend is $3,120.00 a month to survivors or the terrorist if still alive. Then you have other nefarious dealings. Why support corruption that is obviously costing more and more lives?
            I would probably be a big fan of the U.N. if they actually worked towards the goals they were established for. But when you have kleptocratic abusers of human rights try to list America as an abuser of human rights and they remain innocent? Sorry but I am done with that.

          • Trump is about as isolationist as Hitler was.

          • DrBillLemoine

            The times are different, the dictatorial instincts are similar. How do you explain cutting immigration in half as not isolationist? How do you explain alienating ALL our allies as not isolationist? How do you explain withdrawing Trump courting expansionist Dictator Putin as not isolationist? Trump at least is not invading neighboring countries–although it might be argued that rebuffing MX for not paying Wall expenses but offering to help with ‘bad hombres’ and threatening to renegotiate NAFTA isn’t invading trade space with Canada?

          • You need to quantify your differentiation of isolationism and non-interventionism.

          • DrBillLemoine

            Quantify, no. Qualify is different. Consider isolationism before and after WW1 and right before WW2 that made FDR take devious actions to assist our allies.

          • FDR was more devious in dragging us into the war than he was in assisting our allies.

          • DrBillLemoine

            FDR did not ‘drag us into the war’–the Japanese sneak attacked Pearl Harbor. How do you compare deviance with assistance? Apples and oranges.

          • Why did the Japanese attack Pearl Harbor?
            Why did the Honolulu newspaper talk about expecting it a week before it happened?

          • It would have been more useful if all American presidents had controlled Israel’s nuclear developments before they built the biggest nuclear arsenal in the middle east, with our assistance and acquiescence.

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